Sep 30 2009
The Gold Label
The Gold Label is another company in Malaysia that operates with a similar model to Genneva Gold. They sell you gold at a discount to the listed price and offer a guaranteed buyback at the listed price after the end of a specified period of time.
I don’t have the exact details of the terms but I would caution anyone from joining such “guaranteed buyback” schemes. I will post more details of the Gold Label scheme once I have it.
My earlier post on Genneva Gold has already attracted close to 500 comments; you can refer to it to read some of the arguments for and against such schemes. Some of these comments would be applicable to The Gold Label as well.
Remember the shills posting comments in the Stoic thread?
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let’s keep an open mind.
anyone with more details please post here for public awareness.
contrary to what the agents say, i believe most of us here are interested in debating the pros and cons of each opportunity. We don’t derive pleasure in bashing all opportunities. It’s just all the recent opportunities smell really bad.
just remember.. anything too good to be true often is.
Cheers,
Intheknow
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Bias Reply:
October 10th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
When you make comments on Genneva, your choice of words is so strong and most of your comments drives that it is probably a scam.
When it comes to “The Gold Label”, which is a newer company, but however has the same concept as Genneva, your comment starts “let’s keep an open mind”.
I wonder what makes you say that?
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Rich Reply:
October 31st, 2009 at 1:43 am
I also felt the same too about IntheKnow?
Also 2%, may be kawan-kawan
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Do they advertise on TV on premium cable channels?
Some people (maybe shills, maybe not) love to claim that if there’s an ad on reputable tv channel, it must be real. Otherwise, the tv producers will not air it.
Strangely enough, when I google some of those product names, the 1st page of Google screams “SCAM SCAM SCAM” all over.
Why would a product being advertised on ESPN scream SCAM all over Google?
Food for thought.
For the neutrals reading this, it’s all about the money. That’s also the same reason why the 3 local telcos don’t do much about misleading/fraudulent ringtone & wallpaper charges. They earn a transaction fee out of it!
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I believe if you buy gold with a local bank and keep the gold with them for safe keeping, you need to pay interest.
It is possible that this company is using investor’s as a cheaper source money instead of a bank loan, like Stanford who sold CDs and use the money to invest.
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Wah. . . .Why is Genneva so much more “popular” than The Gold Label?
So much comments there but so quiet here. Haha.
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I heard The Gold Label is also facing problems. They cannot fulfill their promises to investors due to their competitors recent saga and currently only open door to investors that “understand” them. They did not open their door for operation for few weeks already. Can anyone please verify this.
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Genneva, Gold Label, Samudra, blah blah – all them con artists ponzi schemes.
Again, i urge agents of such companies to go get proper day jobs. even a road sweeper has much more respect than these muppets.
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goofy, what do you invest in?
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Dear Jonathan,
The Kingdom of Heaven is near. Invest in guiding people away from greed which may result in their downfall.
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Mentioned above “The Gold Label is another company in Malaysia that operates with a similar model to Genneva Gold. They sell you gold at a discount to the listed price and offer a guaranteed buyback at the listed price after the end of a specified period of time.”
And wow, i am really impressed, with more than 500 posts on GV in just month, but here, its like quiet town… ..
I do agree to Bias and Rich, its seems that, the comment by InTheKnow starts with “let’s keep an open mind.”, wow. You have nearly more than 100 comments over GV, maybe its true that you have no idea of this TGL, or could be .. ..
And what happen to those know-a-lot commentator? How come here not much comments, even they are having the same business nature with GV?
Just a curious thought, 2.5%, is the TGL closed the door and just allowed understand customer in?
All the best.
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2.5% Reply:
November 3rd, 2009 at 11:17 am
Hi James Siew,
This is what I heard about TGL. But I am curious why the nobody can help me to verify it here promptly like Genneva-gold forum? Maybe I should post it over the other forum to get an answer.
# 2.5%on 29 Oct 2009 at 2:07 pm
I heard The Gold Label is also facing problems. They cannot fulfill their promises to investors due to their competitors recent saga and currently only open door to investors that “understand” them. They did not open their door for operation for few weeks already. Can anyone please verify this.
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Lady Reply:
November 3rd, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Maybe it is because it is malicious rumours spread by vindictive people?
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suisse Reply:
December 27th, 2009 at 2:43 am
TGL still running in malaysia
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Krisdadaio Reply:
June 12th, 2010 at 11:44 am
No at all.National Bank had freezed their account
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Lady Reply:
November 3rd, 2009 at 11:22 pm
Hi James Siew,
The Gold Label is open to anyone who is interested. I think the rumours started after GV got raided.
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Rich Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 12:27 am
Hi Lady,
You are very sure about TGL.
Are you investor or agent?
You represent Malaysia or Singapore?
What are the interest per month?
What type of gold they are distributing? Physical or Paper Gold?
Thank You
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Lady Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
I’m an agent and I represent Malaysia.
The Gold Label does not give interest. They give rebate of 2.5% not on per month basis but per transaction.
The gold they are distributing is PAMP gold bars with certificate which actually belongs to the customer. As it belongs to the customer, the customer keeps the physical gold.
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Rich Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
great, so what is the contract period?
30days? 90days?
any guarantee buy back price at 100% of my principle?
where is the office in singapore?
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Spy^Der Reply:
November 5th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Dear Lady,
Wow u really know your stuffs
Yes, a physical gold of 999.9 in hand. PAMP certified original certificate and an original invoice. Total amount you invest is how much the piece of gold is worth. I felt it, held it and ahem..
You can bring it to the essayer to test the purity of the gold or any gold smith shop.
Lady, is right. U get to keep the physical gold and original gold certificate by PAMP.
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jimmy fong Reply:
December 8th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
lady i like to ask can i be the agent of TGL
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hmm. the first sentence i see at the website is:
“Gold is posibbly one of the best hedges against inflation”
need i say more about the quality of this company?
cheers,
intheknow
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Rich Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
so who are you?
agent of the gold label too?
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The Gold Label is opening in Singapore.
S’pore is strict about this kind of invesment company and they got a green light to operate its business there.
Any idea if is it still a scam?
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Intheknow Reply:
November 5th, 2009 at 11:08 am
1. has it opened?
2. green light to operate as WHAT SORT OF COMPANY? investment company regulated by MAS? or a dodgy import/export company?
3. typo on the website shows the ‘high’ quality of the company.
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Jonathan Reply:
November 5th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
Hi intheknow,
What kind of license a company need, if they were to operate in singapore for gold business?
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As for The Gold Label,
I am more concerned who are the shareholders & directors of the company? Trustworthy or fly by night?
Accounts – real or doctored?
What ever, even a listed company can go bankrupt even it is approved by MAS.
Heard that they also do paper gold in Malaysia.
Just a concern, be careful !
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Jonathan Reply:
November 5th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
heard that they have similar model as GV. This sound scary
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Lady Reply:
November 6th, 2009 at 1:03 am
Its a different model of GV and they are still fine tuning the model to ensure that it is as compliant as possible.
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Rich Reply:
November 6th, 2009 at 1:27 am
FYI, I had just bought 10kg from GV Singapore, they give me real physical gold.
How can it be the same?
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Intheknow Reply:
November 6th, 2009 at 11:49 am
good luck to you Rich.
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smarty Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
I was looking through the online forum that you were on about gold investment and you seemed interested in knowing more about it. I’m wondering if whether you have already started investing in them. Do let me know? Really curious how is it happening for you with the investments.
Sorry if i have not introduced myself. You can call me smarty. Am currently an agent working in spore.
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both goldlabel and genneva also give physical gold what…it is the same…just that gold label with certificate
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Alfredo, there is a difference on the type of gold and the cert. I was ignorant of that as well until I started assisting people who wanted to sell off Genneva gold. It seems that PAMP + cert can fetch a higher value as compared to GV gold.
So if comparing GV gold & PAMP with cert at the same price, I’d rather keep PAMP as I can sell it for a better price in case something happens.
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wholesaler Reply:
November 6th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
of course, you are right. GV bars will fetch a slightly lower price.
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Alfredo Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 1:44 am
thanks for the explanation. but then how to know whether the certificate is genuine or not?
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I am quite disturbed/ pissed when I aware that GV markup 20% of the gold price. Since TGL is slightly different from GV, can any agent from TGL tell me what is the price you selling your gold compare to GV? Thank you in advance.
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Lady Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 1:02 am
GV merely follows the price stated in FGJAM which most goldsmith shops are using so there is nothing to be pissed about.
The price that TGL is selling is also as per FGJAM.
In the 1st place why should you be pissed about the price? You want to enjoy the monthly 2%/2.5% rebate and also the buy back guarantee so you have to pay the price.
Besides, the company needs to make money to give you those benefits and continue operation.
If you are interested in gold trading you can try buying gold from public gold or banks. They sell you at a much cheaper price. However, you will be exposed to gold price fluctuations and there will be no rebates.
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Gold Lover Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 1:48 am
Mind to share how tgl difference from Gv? is it buy back guarantee LEGAL in malaysia? how about in Singapore?. Did the Buy back is at original purchase price? stated in invoice? please advice.
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Lady Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
The term buy back guarantee is legal in Malaysia. Just depends on who uses it.
The difference between GV and TGL is:
- TGL is giving rebates per transaction
- There will be a custodian purchaser who will buy at the original purchase price stated in the invoice.
If I’m not mistaken, the 3 months period with monthly rebates is actually ok in Singapore but not in Malaysia. Not very sure about that.
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dm Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
TGL is giving rebates pper transaction same as GV what’s the difference?
Nee d to clarify
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Gold Lover Reply:
November 8th, 2009 at 1:02 am
dear lady,
How is the custodian purchaser relates to TGL and why they want to buy it at original purchase price for TGL clients? How they make money then???
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Dear Gold Lover,
The Custodian is just like after the BNM raid on Genneva when Genneva does not want to honour its pledge on the Buy Back Guarantee (BBG) and informed their customers through their agents that there is a “Custodian” ABC Company which is willing to buy back the gold at 20% or 80% of Genneva’s selling price. Therefore at one swoop, the Seller do away with the BBG and at the same time circumvent the authorities’ scrutiny. The agents and the gold trading companies are not going to tell you because the only way they can conduct this kind of business is to use subterguge and without transparency. Have you seen any of the gold trading companies such as The Gold Label or Samudra coming out with any transparency on their business model?
Genneva is the Custodian for Samudra and TGL is “makan sendiri”.
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Alfredo Reply:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
yo bro, do you think the business model for company like TGL and GV sustainable?
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Jeffrey,
You are absolutely right. they have not shown their business model in the most transparent way possible. They did show partially, when investor probe further they will say “Well, this is it. Have you see any company show 100% of their business model” then investor got no choice but to agree with their simplified model that any moron can comes out with. Just with some mathematical trick and magic figures. In another words, this tow companies are same same only.
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Gold Lover,
The reason why no company will show you their business model is because the capital to start off is very little only. You only need a few millions to start the company. So naturally companies would not want to show their whole business model to create more competitions in the market.
Therefore the only way is to show a rough idea on how the company makes money.
Anyways, when customers buy the gold they have to know clearly the risk of coming in.
If these companies are a scam or they get raided by BNM, the risk is 20% off their capital for those who force sell. This does not include the monthly 2.5% they have been receiving. When you come into these trading, you should put aside the guarantee part and expect that much of loss.
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dear lady,
mind sharing the business model of TGL over here? at least TGL is more transparent than GV.
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Dear Alfredo,
The Lady has very kindly told us that when you invest in TGL and Genneva/Samudra you have to be prepared to lose the 20% less whatever rebates you have got. Coming from an Agent of TGL, this speaks volumes on the sustainability. The other valuable piece of information given by the LADY is that all these companies starts with small capital of “a few millions”. Whether it is sustainable or not will depend on whether the companies can make the 300% per annum to paid your “rebates”. Hello friend, if you are making 300%
profit per annum, do you want to involve in such thankless business? You may just borrow from the bank or roll your credit card and your “few millions” will turn into “few hundreds of millions.
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Lady Reply:
November 9th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
300% per annum? Where did you get that figure? Which company claims to make 300% per annum? O.o
What does that have to do with sustainability?
Let’s take a look at unit trust. You have a possibility of losing 100% or making 100% or more. That’s high risk.
What does a 20% risk have to do with the sustainability of a company?
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Sure but mind you, i’m just sharing what we’re told and through my own experience.
Let’s look at most of the program out there that offers buys backs of their own gold at purchase price.
We all know how trading works. Buy cheap sell high. Most gold companies will probably get it slightly lower than banks price maybe around RM120/g.
They sell it at RM142/g making a profit of RM22/g. Now in any business no company is going to keep the RM22/g. They will use it to buy more gold. They will keep the gold and most probably sell it when they make a certain % (that’s their trade secret that I don’t know exactly)
From my own understanding, the gold company makes more $$$ when the gold price goes up and if it drops below their cost they make temporary losses. So within a month they may have 2-3times turnover or more depending on the gold price. In 30days, they should be able to make enough to cover the 2.5% and a little bit more AND also provide a buy-back to clients.
At the end of the day somebody has to take the risk and in this case, its the company and if the company cannot not take the risk, the customer bears the 20% risk. ^.^ Hence, it is also important for buyers to hold hallmarked gold with cert as it fetches a slightly better price if you know where to look.
However from my own personal physical gold trading, I can make about 6% a month. So I don’t see why a company with a huge capital is not able to generate enough profit to sustain their business.
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Alfredo Reply:
November 9th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
Hi Lady,
Thanks for your explanation on the business model of TGL. I love especially when you mentioned that you re making 6% monthly from your personal trading. Thats cool. Are you trading on physical gold or gold ETF to earned that 6%? I would love to do something on my own to get that return. please advice. I believe that you wont come back and tell me that “It is your trade secret”? haha just joking. Just about sharing so that everyone can profit from the uptrend of gold. Thanks you in advance.
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kw Reply:
November 18th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Dear Lady,
I am quite interested to invest, can you email me your info to kennywongkw@gmail.com or 0123713997
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may Reply:
April 9th, 2010 at 3:09 pm
I made some simple calculation based on price sold by Genneva and UOB.
The diff is about 18 to 20% more if I buy from G. G will have to pay for the gold also. So G can only invest with the 20%extra it collects from me. Assuming I pay $10000, G pays me 2% which is $200 per month. In order to pay me $200 per mth which is 10% of the $2000 that G get to invest, assuming G pays 8000 for the gold bar. Based on this simple calculation, the rate of return G has to generate per annum is 120%. In order to make a profit, G will have to generate more than 120% per annum.
??? which investment pays more than 120% per annum without risk??
Question: why dont G borrow from bank, only about 5% instead of paying us 120%
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Dear Lady,
Your are really charming and informative and more than what I can say of other agents who hide behind an iron curtain.
1. Profit for TGL, Genneva/Samudra
I cannot say about the figures for TGL but for current Samudra model let us assume that the Company makes 20% on the gold that they are selling.
The payments the Company has to make are as follows :
1.1 Rebate at 2.5%;
1.2 Agent/agency at 1.3%;
1.3 Administration and overhead costs at 1.2%
The total is 5% per month on the investors sum or annualised at 60% (5% x 12 months = 60%)
Since the profit which the Company can use to roll is only 20% of the invested sum, therefore the Company has to make 60 x 100/20
or 300%.
Therefore I cannot understand how with 20%, even assuming the Company can roll over 3 times a month it cannot amount to many times the invested sum and the assumption that the Company has only to pay the rebate is flawed. How about agency fees (your income oh and overhead)
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Jonathan Reply:
November 9th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
jeff, you re very analytical and informative. When a person invest, yes the profit margin is 20%. But that doesnt mean that company can just roll using the 20% coz the whole sum of investment is with the company say for one full month. That is assuming if client were to withdraw after one month. But in actual fact, i believe that majority of clients will keep renewing, thus company will keep generating the income using the whole big sum invested. Now why client keep renewing? Knowing that risk is 20%, assuming monthly rebate is 2.5%, they will invest free of risk after 8 months.
Anyhow, 8 months is a period of time whereby most people are comfortable with i suppose. Because anyhow, when we talk about investing in physical gold, it is all about holding power. Company like TGL,SGV or even GV selling at markup price of 20%, that is perfectly fine VS the chances of getting rebate of 2.5% that your risk are lowered every month. Even if the company screw up, it just back to square one, and a little longer to recoup losses. And that is also if someone desperately need to get rid of the gold.
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may Reply:
April 9th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
the 20% risk is not much as long as you dont invest more and more and than at the height of your investment, the company go bust. I know of people who starts small and eventually sell their house and their car to pump into this investment.
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I agree with Intheknow comment dated on 13 Nov 09 in next forum and of course yours, 2%. In conclusion, GV, Samudra and The Gold Label are the same? Right? Just have to keep your eyes open………. on your investment.
2%: So can conclude all are con-pany since they work similarly? I already put in money with The Gold Label because I thought new company will not fold up easily. I have to re-value it again since all belong to the same category.
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Company claim that they had 8 ways of trade secret to make those kind of money to pay for around 6% total payout monthly. (2.5% rebate+1.3% agent commission+ 1% operating + 1.2% insurance). i have no idea whether they really had it all 8 ways. however, i myself try so hard to understand all of it, and how actually company make those kind of money to sustain. i search for so long time and put so many efford. search information both secondary and primary. getting wide network both local (private & goverment) and foreign ( private finance company, instututions and banks) Finally, i got 4 ways to really make enough money to pay such 6% monthly. more than enough to pay it 6% and make extra money for company profit. very easy and logical way. i guaratee 100% workable. 2 of the trade secret are actually quite similar that company simplified version that reveal in their presentation. most ppl don’t beleive the simple way that company person incharge that always keep telling in presentation. However, its was real but too simplify. people only see how the process work but don’t know how it actually work and where to get those resources that mention in the process. Thanks to my both foreign and local partners, now i knew everything about all these GV,BGH,PGH,TGL and many more companies what they actually doing. Sorry friends, of coz i am not going to reveal the secrets in here. for who really want to know. please drop me an email with ur personal detail and contact number. i will contact u and inform u the charges. tell u in upfront, i charge millions. i don’t interested to start the same business, thats why i juz sell off the secret. For those affortable and interested to make really good profit. please drop an email to me. U will no regret after know how it actually works. i don’t take ur money up front, after u know the method. u sure will pay me the money. thanks bro
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may Reply:
April 9th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
to make 6% of the whole investment sum, they need to generate a return of 30% per month out of the 20%extra they collect isnt it.
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Dear Secret,
Wow, your have cracked the puzzle but not interested to go into this lucretive business. What a waste of your genius talents or is your research leading you to the conclusion that involving yourself in such business will lead to your joining the huge group of Malaysian “economic exiles”. Anyway, it will be interesting if you will contact me at arieswyewye2010@yahoo.com and share some of your insight.
Thank you & best regards,
Jeffrey Lim
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Can someone tell me if the gold label has started their operations in Singapore?
1) Is it 2% or 2.5% in singapore
2) interested to become the agent, any idea what is their com structure?
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Lady Reply:
December 10th, 2009 at 12:11 am
1) it is 2% for Singapore due to GST.
2) Yes I know how the comm structure works. Do you have an email or hp no so that i can contact you? thx.
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ZM Reply:
December 11th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
ZM,
Can contact me too? Thank you.
Email: zmqwe71@yahoo.com
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curios Reply:
December 13th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Thanks. my email address : exitscene@gmail
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Daydreamer Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
Hi Lady
Could you e-mail me the details? nixnahnat@gmail.com
I’m interested to be an agent as well as an investor. Thanks.
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KI Reply:
March 1st, 2010 at 12:04 pm
hi,
pls contact me on anushka.ogale@gmail.com. thanks
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CM Reply:
April 7th, 2010 at 11:03 pm
Hi Lady,
Can you pls contact me @ chee_meng84@hotmail.com
Interested to find out more…
thanks..
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Dennis Reply:
July 23rd, 2010 at 4:34 pm
Hi Lady,
I am also interested to know such investment. my contact
aait_dennis@yahoo.com
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Dan Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 12:59 am
Hi Lady,
Can you pls let me know, my contact is evias@hotmail.com
I’m located in Spore, recently found out abt TGL
Tks
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Hi Everyone,
Just went for the gold label presentation and found out that
they are giving rebates of:
2.5%+2% for 90 days investment = 4.5%
2.5%+2.5% for 180 days investment = 5.5%
I am very worry now, I am not sure about all of you out there.
At least Genneva is more realistic.
I think our friends, 2% & 2.5% will be even more nervous about The Gold Label.
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Penangites Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Hi curios,
if you don’t mind, could you share with me where you attended the presentation. This is not the plan implemented by The Gold Label so far in malaysia.
Are you from Singapore?
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Dear curios,
After paying for your gold, how long does it take for TGL to deliver the gold to your possession?
TQ
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curios Reply:
December 16th, 2009 at 1:24 am
Sorry, I only saw the slides which was presented to me & my friends by the agent.
It is a 90days programe.
2.5% rebate on Day 1
2% rebate on Day 30
2.5% rebate on Day 31
2% rebate on Day 60
2.5% rebate on Day 61
2% rebate on Day 90
I think only the LADY agent could explain, I think it is too good to be true!!!
I am out definitely.
Not sure if there’s any delivery of physical gold,
if it is 4.5% p.mth, it must be paper.
Thank you
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Penangites Reply:
December 16th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Hi Curios,
From what I know, everything you listed there is correct but the additional 2% for Day30, 60 and 90 will not be true.
I think you might get interpreted wrongly. You should confirm this with the agent.
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Depends on the time of closing. If the closing of the transaction, meaning the agent completes everything and submits it to office before 1pm, you should be able to collect the physical gold 2 days from the submission. Which is the 3rd day.
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how did this get so many responses? This is very suspicious.
Even those Pinnacle Notes and High Notes issues didn’t get sooo many responses.
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Hi
Can anyone adivise, if i need to know more about this. Am i able to walk in their office to have more detail?
Blue.
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met an agent from TGL and really quite different model that i heard.
- purchase gold @ FGJAM price, immediate 3% discount off the total amount.
- but need to add a 7% GST (Singapore).
- i.e Retail price – 3% + 7%
- The minute money is cleared (you pay by cheque), the gold can be collected at their office (PAMP gold)
- 3 months later, the first payout of 3% of the purchased gold price will be in your bank account. (i.e your retail price x 3%)
- then another 3 months later, they payout another 3% to your account. (i.e your retail price x 3%)
- at this point, you can excercise your option to purchase the gold back at the price you paid for. They will also give back the 7% GST as a “bonus” (i.e your retail price + 7%)
All in all, your profit will be about 9% for half a year.
This sounds too good to be true, but it’s a formula that has my friends talking and some of them has already signed up for it.
I’m tempted. Wouldn’t you?
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curios Reply:
December 21st, 2009 at 12:58 am
9%,
I wouldn’t for sure.
Why go for 9% for half year when you can have 2% per month elsewhere and excercise your option every 30 days.
Do yourself a favor, do a search of the company & directors?
1) Where do they come from?
2) What are their previous background?
3) What are their paid-up capital?
4) Are they regulated by MAS?
As long as you know your risk, they rest ….
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Krisdadaio Reply:
June 12th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
May i know izzit had to buy min 1kg gold in order to enjoy the rebate for 3 month?.I heard must buy min 1kg gold.Is too much
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anyone who is interested in participating in this programme as an investor, let me know how I can reach you.
thanks
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Dass Reply:
March 20th, 2010 at 7:12 am
I am interested please contact me via email
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BP Reply:
March 20th, 2010 at 9:41 pm
call me at 94513549
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TGL issuing real physical gold with cert,. still….. i got this feeling that somehow this is a scam. anyone got more info on this. not much info found regarding on this…any1 got links to more info for TGL? tks
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I would like to share a possible business model adopted by TGL:
RM /gm
FGJAM Price of Gold 150.00
Gold Spot Price 125.00
Gross Margin 16.7% 25.00
Rebates 2.5% 3.75
Agent’s Com. 0.7% 1.05
Admin. O/hd 10.0% 15.00
Financial costs 2.5% 3.75
Total Expenses 15.7% 23.55
Profit 1.0% 1.45
Why cant you make profit from this operation?
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lioninvestor Reply:
December 24th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Hi Atuk,
Reason is after the company makes the buyback, the entire gross margin disappears.
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It is imperative that you to manage your cashflow..
You start up with initial working capital to buy your initial stock of gold.
Your subsequent sale proceeds are used for trading (buying and selling) in gold , with liquidity always in mind. It depends on how good you are at this trade to ensure profitability. Very much like the operation of unit trusts or other investement portfolio managers.
If there is a run-in where everybody sells, even a bank can close down.
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WHY so many words?
Just SHOW the FACES of The Gold Label Management and Key Executives….
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This is a grey colour company,it will operate 5-8years(max),when global eco run well,they will limit buyers or stop operate.
IF you got some money(please dont borrow money),trough into this company buy some gold,keep rolling for two year you will get upto 130%-135% return.
For those (too good to be true)worst senario is you purchase today the company go down tomorrow,you still have the gold bar with cer,sell now you will lose around 20-30%or you can wait for few years,sell the gold when the gold price is hi enough to cover back your lose.
Buy now after 8 month you are risk free and earn some extra money.
Im not agent even I sound like
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Hi suisse,
I agree with you.
Let us drop aside the element of investment.
It is simply the purchase of a gold bullion with rebates.
Simply put, you’re buying a standard gold bar on discount that will be spreaded out over a period of 6 months.
Wherever you go to purchase your gold bullions at retail price, you will not be getting any discounts. which equates to an immediate lost upon purchase with no option of resell untill such times that gold prices raise futher.
The sell back option is just a bonus.
Depending on how you would view the current market climate. Should gold continue it’s bull run, owners can choose not to sell back the gold and keep it.
In the event that gold should take a dip, owners can still exercise the sell back option(if it’s still available) and re-enter the market again at a lower capital.
From the view point of an investor,
Physical gold should form a part of a properly diversified portfolio. Gold remains a universal finite currency, held by every central bank of note in the world.
All the other principal investment classes of the world depend on the solvency of another organisation bound up in the financial system. Gold does not. It is the quality hedge against the commonest personal financial disaster, in terms of numbers of people ruined. It is a hedge against a failure of the financial system itself.
With regards to queries about The Gold Label Pte Ltd, it is a registered company with it’s business model submitted to MAS.
From my personal view point, i would be more concerned about the genuity of the gold bullion itself then other factors. Afterall, i’m putting my money into the gold bullion.
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Whats the fuss about Samudara or TGL. It is another investment arm and depend on your investment appetiate. As with all investment there are risk to it. Share can hit you, bond can default, unit trust can collapse, bank can close (179 banks in US), companies can go burst. Just ask yourself, if you can sleep peacefully at night with where you put your money then just do it. As for the trade secret of how companies make money I don’t think any company will expose it to the public. Even high profile companies. ever heard of creative accounting? Whatever it is go back to basic. Is it safe, will I get the return I set for and if anything happens what am I left with?
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Dear SMI,
Rightly said except for the “investment” part. Gold trading is a trading activity of buy and sell. However, with your innovative gold traders such as TGL or Samudra GV, you can have your cake and eat it. In most trading companies, the trader sells and makes his profit/loss. End of story. However, here when you buy gold, you get an implicit buy back guarantee and a rebate ad infinitum which means the gold trader not only sells you the gold but when you buys his gold and keep rolling it over, the trader keeps working for him by giving him the monthly rebate. Here Santa Claus comes every month and gives the purchaser his rebate for the month in advance. The gold trader keeps the economy alive by generating the rebates for the purchaser, by paying the agents their fees, by
creating employment opportunities and giving opportunities to the masses to sell their jewelleries to be re-worked into gold bars/coins. If only the world have more of these citizens who can qualify for the Nobel Prize for contributions to humanity. They should be allowed to serve humanity instead of being incalcerated as in the case of Madoff. Think of the people they had helped in the past who had built up the pyramid and benefited from their labour instead of labouring about the consequences when the pyramid crumbles. Remember, you still hold the bricks. Bad luck if your brick is “parked in” or your “roll over is still being processed and you don’t even manage to get a brick”.
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Hi,
If The Gold Label are able to come out a term contract for few years (3-5 years) of continuation rebate at 2.5% or more please do let me know. Aside form this, if i were to buy physical gold,
(1)Which one is better, UOB Malaysia or Bank Negara Malaysia in term of pricing?
(2) Can they accommodate for 50kg or less?
(3)Will I get discount if I buy in bulk?
Anyone who can advice me on this please do so or can come out with a better suggestion. I am still learning and trying to gain as much knowledge as possible about investing in gold.
regards,
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wholesaler Reply:
January 7th, 2010 at 10:32 pm
Hi quart
To help you with your questions:
1) UOB Malaysia is a small player in Malaysia. You may want to check with other bigger bullion dealers for better pricing.
2) I am sure they will sell you any amount.
3) I can sell you at good price if you are keen to buy physical gold.
Pls sms or call me at +6013 351 5608.
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Dear Quart,
The internationally recognized gold is PAMP Gold and they are many gold bullion traders who sells PAMP Gold. If you are investing in gold for appreciational purposes and wait for the price of gold to go up before cashing it then the best bet it PAMP Gold, but please exercise caution as there are already some reports of fake gold on the market. However, if you are investing to enjoy the rebate, TGL is not known as of today to give any term contract but only their payment voucher where their standard terms and conditions are stipulated. Anyway, whether there is or isn’t any contract does not make any difference. More important is the health of the Company and their ability to fulfil what they promised you implicitely or explicitely. If you care to contact me at arieswyewye2010@yahoo.com we can arrange to meet and I can provide you with more information on gold trading which will give you the options available and the risks involved
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SB Reply:
January 8th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
Jeffrey, I am interested to learn from you on gold trading. Do you mind me asking if I have to pay you any form of commission for your advice ?
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Krisdadaio Reply:
June 12th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
Izzit The Gold Label Pte is scam company as i know malaysia office the account had been freeze up which operate less than one year.Just curious it is could happened to the gold label in singapore later….
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Dear SB,
Thank you for your interested. I do not charge any fee. Please feel free to contact me.
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To;
Wholesaler & Jefferey Lim
Thank you for your reply and explanation. I really appreciate it.Yes,the purpose I’m investing in gold is for it to appreciate and I am looking less than 50kg. I have approached UOB and waiting for them to get back to me on the availability of stock this Monday. On the other hand, I would like to explore and see what others have to offer. I need to know if the big players are recognize by at least Malaysian government. After consulting few people, I personally feel that buying from bank is safer yet I will still keep my option open. Regarding the TGL , I’m still considering it because I really think the risk is worth to take since we can keep the physical gold.
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Ling Reply:
January 10th, 2010 at 6:15 pm
Quart,
I am a Manager with TGL in KL. If you have any queries, please feel free to call me at 016-2781775. We will have some changes to our contract period very soon. Ling
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quart Reply:
January 12th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
Hi Ling,
Thank you for responding. I would appreciate it if I could have your email as well.
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Ling Reply:
January 12th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Quart,
You can reach me on ryan846@gmail.com. I check my email daily. Rgds, Ling
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Lets hypotheticaly assume that TGL has 100kg of gold bar sold to 100 investors and there’s no additional investors or increase in gold holdings over a period of 12 mths.
Every mth, the same 100 investors return to sell back to TGL the 100kg of gold bars and enjoy 2% rebate and renew anagin at prevailing price for another mth.
This cycle is repeated for 12 mths at which all investors return the 100kg of gold bar back to TGL.
TGL would have back their original 100kg of gold bars and the investors would have make 24% profit (base on simple interest of 2%/mth).
Not factoring in the commission payout to agents and TGL’s overheads, where on earth did the money come from to pay the investors that 24% rebate?
It just doesn’t add up.
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SMI Reply:
January 23rd, 2010 at 10:12 am
We have to look at the econonic principle of money flow i.e every dollar in a bank will able the banks to lend 10 times to generate further borrwings and made money out of it. With returns the banks generate they declare 2% or 2.35% a year to the investor. What happen to the 100% or more made for every deposit you put in, do they share it with you. Banks are declaring RM billion in profit every year but giving out a mearge 2 to 2.5% to customers. Are we concern how they make their money or even request them to pay or share mor of the profits with us? If we are not willing to take any risk keep in the bank full stop. High risk high returns, don’t want risk but wants high returns, where to invest? I would be very interested to put my money, not much but can lah.
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fact,
Let’s assume the following business model:
(per 100gm)
FGJAM Price of Gold 150.00
Gold Spot Price 125.00
Gross Margin 16.7% 25.00
Rebates 2.5% 3.75
Agent’s Com. 0.7% 1.05
Financial costs 2.5% 3.75
Total Expenses 5.7% 8.55
Gross Profit 11.0% 16.45
bef. Admin. exps. ( i.e. fixed cost)
For 100kg of gold to 100 investors, TGL would have received cash of RM15m and profit upfront of RM1.65m.
Assuming no other business, every month for 12 months TGL would have to pay rebate of 2.5% to 100 investors of RM4.5m. (RM15m X 2.5% X 12).
Thus, incurring a shortfall of RM2.86m (RM1.65m – RM4.5m).
However, bear in mind that TGL has the use of RM15m for 12 months, collected upfront.
TGL needs to get a return of at least 20%pa on the RM15m collected to cover the above shortfall.
The question is ….. can TGL do it?
I think with some fine tuning TGL may have a viable business there.
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fact Reply:
January 13th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
TGL receives 15m cash which they need to return back to the investors the full amount PLUS another 24% interest.
It doesn;t matter whether they have a margin over Gold spot price becuase the BUy Back guarantee is at the invoiced price. So even if they mark it up by 100% on the invoice price, they have to buy back at that mark up price when the investors return the gold bar to them.
In effect, the way I look at it, they are borrowing money from the investors and using the gold bar as a collateral, paying investors 24% pa as interest effectively.
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Dear SMI,
Pls contact me by e-mail : arieswyewye2010@yahoo.com and we can communicate further.
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Anyone heard of the Sunshine empire? The super return by the company. Now under CAD. What make me sad is most of the people who lost in this investment is friend or relative who is the agent, what can these people do. they can’t sue the agent cause of the bloodline or friendship. but you also cannot blame the agent, they were mislead into believe in the easy $$$ and the huge commission and reward like brand new BMW. .. I personally believe TGL is going to be under it someday give it a yr or 2.
hopefully the CAD can look into this asap.. dun wan too many people to lose their hard earn $$$ through this.
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You may be well aware what TGL does is basically to buy gold from UOB at spot price (which you too can get the same spot price from UOB) and sell it to investors at > 20% above market value.
In other words, it simply means that you’re giving TGL the 20% or higher mark-up as unsecured loan (the other 80% is secured by the gold you hold). Why would you want to give someone like TGL an unsecured loan? Oh… because they promised to pay you interests of 2% per month, or 24% p.a. Btw, they word it as “rebate” instead of interest just so as not to run foul of the laws, but they’re the same in this scenario.
Besides paying investors 24%p.a, their commission structure is such that they pay their agents a total of another 1.3% PER MONTH (for every month the investors stay with the company), or 15.6% p.a. That’s a total of 39.6% p.a. and we still have not include their rental, labor, and other overheads.
Can TGL generate that kind of profits to substantiate such high cost of payment to investors? I believe the fair question to ask is: WHO and WHAT KIND of people are running the business to make such huge profits possible?
From my understanding, the company’s partners and most of the people running the show are ex-salesman from a land-banking company called Walton International. I’m not suggesting that they’re incapable, but it certainly raise some red flags.
Let’s be realistic, if professional investment bankers had a hard time delivering that kind of returns (internally and not what they offer retail investors), how much more so can we expect from a bunch of salesman. Yes, salesman can paint you rosy pictures and stories to boot, BUT… I think we should be smart enough to discern the difference.
Hence, it is my belief that this gold investment scheme is simply another ponzi scheme, where money from the later investors is used to pay earlier investors.
Another very important fact which I would like to highlight is… INTEGRITY. TGL keep telling their investors that they’re paying “market rate” for their gold because that’s the prices gold-smith shops charges their customers for jewelleries. But the truth of the matter is that, the REAL market price is the price you get directly from UOB. Anybody can buy gold directly from UOB, and that’s the real market rate for bullion gold bars. Comparing bullion gold prices to retail jewellery price actually amounts to lying and misleading. I believe investors can and should have legal recourse over here.
Warren Buffert once said something to this extend “if you want to know how great a company is, just look at its people”. I believe those are very wise words.
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I invested with TGL in Dec 2009. I am holding the gold now, got cert or not, i can’t recall… need to go back to check tonight.
I trust it as it was explained to me in such a manner that quite make sense…
some key words:
commodity
security
storage
pass title in 3 – 6mths time
I guess u ppl are smart enough to piece it together.
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fact Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 10:50 pm
I suggest you walk into any goldsmith shop or talk to any gold trader and share with them about TGL and see if they can make any sense out of it.
Oh yah, TGL has a proprietary business model that cannot be reveal and how they make their money to pay the investors is top secret. Heard that so many time before that it is not even funny anymore.
Majority of the investors with TGL has no idea they are paying inflated price for the gold as they think that the prices quoted daily by jewellery shop is universally regarded as price of gold bar as well.
I give it maximum 2 years before the whole deck of cards collapse. One sign to watch out is when they start to give higher and higher returns with longer time frame. This is a tell tale sign that they are not getting sufficient new money in to pay the earlier investors and to resolve the issue, they offer more returns for longer period, thus buying them more time to “roll over” the payment to investors.
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Greeting to All,
This is what I understand of TGL Singapore works.
- purchase gold @SJA (Singapore Jewellery Association) price, immediate 3% discount off the total amount.
- but need to add a 7% GST (Singapore).
- i.e Retail price – 3% + 7%
- The minute money is paid (you pay by cheque cleared), the gold can be collected at their office (PAMP or other Intl 999.9 gold)
- 3 months later, the first payout of 3% of the purchased gold price will be in your bank account. (i.e your retail price x 3%)
- then another 3 months later(180 to 187 days from date of purchase), they payout another 3% to your account. (i.e your retail price x 3%)
- at this point, you can exercise your option to purchase the gold back at the price you paid for. They will also give back the 7% GST as a “bonus” (i.e your retail price + 7%)
All in all, your profit will be about 9% for half a year.
The Gold Label Pte Ltd (TGL) is registered in Singapore as a “General and Wholesale Trading Co” and they are not required to be under the purview of Singapore MAS.
As TGL deals with secondhand goods (ie. Buying back gold from their clients), they need to apply to the Singapore Police Force for a Secondhand Goods Dealer License for smooth operations.
TGL also went to the extend of checking with Singapore IRAS to ensure that they comply/meet the IRAS GST compliance.
TGL does not do the sales and marketing themselves. They outsourced to 5 marketing companies. TGL pays a standard 1.3% commission for the outsource service.
As such, their Admin & Operation are very much lower. This is a semi fix cost like less than 10 people to cover accounting, logistic Customer Services and office rental at 6 Battery Road, #17-07/8. The % of this cost will depend on the biz turnover.
I understand from 1 of the 5 marketing company that they managed to sell 174 Kg of 999.9 good delivery Gold bars within 2 weeks. If this is true, TGL will have sold at least 600 Kg of Gold Bars a month thru the 5 marketing companies. If we look at S$62K per Kg of Gold, this works out to be S$37.2 million worth of biz a month. TGL certainly did not start with S$30 million to do this $37.2 million biz. I understand that they started with less than S$1.5 million capital. This is the beauty or secret that many or in fact all the forumers failed to see how TGL biz model work. Many understands that TGL has marked up the price by 20% of wholesaler price (ie about 22% above Gold spot price). I see nothing wrong with this markup. You buy a Rolex, LV, Jaguar, BMW and their mark up is even higher.
The TGL biz model is simply a multiplier effect like 1; 1.2; 1.44; 1.728; 2.073; 2.488; 2.986; 3.583; 4.3; ………………………. Using Other Peoples Money (OPM) to generate the biz to make money. The more times it multiplies the money TGL makes. Just like what the banks do to collect deposit and loan it back the businesses. Of course the banks model is slightly different as they need many branches and more people to man their biz. TGL has only 1 office in Singapore. All sales are handled by their marketing agents.
TGL behaves differently to Genneva as they have 6 monthly cycle verses Genneva’s monthly cycle. Effectively, TGL pay 1.5% monthly verses Genneva’s 2% monthly.
Genneva starts from as minimal as 5 gm upwards whereas TGL minimum is 100gm and upwards and in multiple of 100gm.
In summary, Genneva targets the man in the street (ie small low end customers) whereas TGL target the upper segment gold investors. Genneva’s office in Orchard Towers can be busy/crowded because clients need visit them every month whereas for TGL, clients visit them every 6 months. I understand the wait at Genneva can be up to 4 hours to conduct a transaction.
I hope some of you out there will understand how the TGL biz model work. I know that many will still be not convince. The simple fact is that it works!
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Victor, your long post fail to address the most fundmental issue of the biz model, where did they make their money from?
To simplify matters, regardless of where if the price of gold during the tenure of the investment, the client will always be able to return the gold back to TGL for the original purchase price. The rebates they receive in essence is the “profit” on their investment.
TGL just keep rolling the money over and over again, each cycle paying the rebates as an incentives. As long as the amount of money is coming in form investors if greater than the money returning to investors, they have positive cash flow.
Factoring in the commission they pay out to the marketing firms distributing this for them, they have to make money from somewhere to make all these disbursement.
TGL is nett paying money to investors, paying money to agents, paying money to ops staff, paying money for rental.
Where is the money coming from to pay everyone? They can’t be making money from invetsors right? Since investors all have positive net returns. They can’t be making money from agents right? Since agents get paid for every investor they rope in.
They can be making money form Gold right? Since the money for the gold is eventually return to the investors. What do they do with the gold if gold drops 20% overnight?
Where did they make the money from to pay everyone in the whole food chain?
Can you enligthen me? And please dont give me the reason that it “business secret”. Margin for trading in Precious metal is very thin and very transparent. There’s no secret about it.
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“They can be making money form Gold right? Since the money for the gold is eventually return to the investors. What do they do with the gold if gold drops 20% overnight?”
Correction…typo error. The above para should read:
They CAN’T be making money form Gold right? Since the money for the gold is eventually return to the investors. What do they do with the gold if gold drops 20% overnight?
“TGL just keep rolling the money over and over again, each cycle paying the rebates as an incentives. As long as the amount of money is coming in form investors if greater than the money returning to investors, they have positive cash flow.”
Should read:
TGL just keep rolling the money over and over again, each cycle paying the rebates as an incentives. As long as the amount of money coming in fromm investors IS greater than the money flow returning to investors, they have positive cash flow.
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Victor Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 1:30 am
Dear Fact,
First, I need to clarify that I am not related to TGL and I do not know how they use the money raised from the Gold investors.
My earlier post simply described how TGL raised their funds. They may starts with S$1 million capital but ended up collecting S$40 million within a month. Out of this S$40 million, S$32 million were spent on Gold purchase which were returned physically to the investors.
Minus some expenses, they will have at least S$7 million cash. TGL process is similiar to a bank FD period of 6 months lockup. Investors cannot go TGL to ask for the return of their money until 6 months later. Effectively as many of us understand TGL is paying 1.5% interest/returns per month to the investors. 1.3% per month to the sales and marketing agent.
As TGL could easily collect S$40 mil to S$50 mil from Gold investors, the Mgt/Admin cost is very low. I believe its about 0.5%.
Their total cost is about 3.3% per month(ie 1.5% + 1.3% = 0.5%). This works out the cost of their funds generation is about 40% a year (Assuming Gold price is stagnant). If Gold prices moves upward in the next 6 months, then their cost of funds is much lower than 40% per annum. Converesly, if Gold price move down, their cost of funds will be higher.
The simple question we need to ask ourselves is how TGL make use of the funds that they have raised every month from these Gold investors(ie estimate about S$7 mil a month and growing). If TGL do nothing with this fund or spend it on themselves, then this will be a ponzi scheme.
However, if TGL uses this funds to do other trading activities and could make good returns on their funds then then it will not be a Ponzi scheme.
For example, we know that Tiger Air is losing many $ millions since they started operations. Yet there are many investors willing to buy their IPO shares. Should we be calling Tiger Air as scam or Ponzi scheme?
Tiger Air biz model is a low-cost airline in Asia and Australia with a focus on route profitability and commitment to a disciplined low-cost business model.
How much do we really know about Tiger Air biz model from just a simple paragraph?
TGL biz model is simply “General and Wholesale Trading”
The simply question we should ask ourselves is “Do we have the trust in the TGL management that they will be able to make more money than their cost of funds (ie make more than 40% returns a year). As long as TGL is able to make more money than their cost of funds, they will be profitable and sustainable in the long run.
In any biz, if you do not have the funds then you will have to find ways to raise the funds to do your biz. For example, in any IPO a company raised, they will have pay their IPO manager at least S$2 mil.
Borrow from the banks? Will any bank lend you money at 120% of your asset? (ie if you have S$ 1 mil in 999.9 Gold will the bank lend S$1.2 mil?) No way. They may consider to loan you only $S700K and charge you a 6 to 10% interest per annum depending on your credit standing with them.
In summary, we know how TGL raise their funds. General and Wholesale Trading is almost anything under the sun. They can be trading in high tech products, commodities, equities and etc. We will have to determine for ourselves if we can trust the TGL management to make more money than their cost of funds.
If we cannot trust the TGL management then please keep your money. If you can trust the TGL management then go ahead to invest in this Gold instrument where you know that your risk is no more than 30% within a 6 months period. Many times less risk in comparison the the Lehman Brothers mini bonds…..
On your question of what happen when Gold price drop 20% overnight? Gold prices typically are not so volatile. You can go and see for yourself by doing a Google/Yahoo search on the Gold price history. 12% to 15% movement over a month is possible but not 20% movement within a day.
In the current volatile global economy, Gold prices are likely to hold up and move upward over time (especially during crisis).
The decision to invest in TGL is certainly done by ourselves as it is our money. CAVEAT EMPTOR!
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Victor,
Yes, what does TGL do with the money to generate that kind of returns with absolute certainty?
Like i said, in essence TGL is borrowing money from investors and paying them interest and using the gold bar as a collateral.
What they do with the money is of course their perogative, as long as they continue to sustain payment to the investors.
Is this a sound business model?
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BP Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:51 am
Your description sounds like what the banks are doing with our money. But we don’t have any collateral when we lend our money to the banks in the form of deposits.
How come no one questions the banks’ business model??
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stanlim88 Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 12:01 am
Becos banks pay u 1-2% interests and loan out at > 2% interests to company and consumers. Most importantly, they are the country licensed “loan shark”. TGL and others must be able to loan out their cash and unfortunately, even if they are able to do so, are running an illegal loan shark activities since they are not licensed in the country as banks! If the invest money in equity, they are also illegal fund mgrs and their returns are not guaranteed – will lose money in most cases!
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Victor Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 12:12 am
Stanlim88,
As a General and Wholesale trading company, TGL cannot be considered as illegal fund mgrs if they invest only 20% to 30% of their funds in equity. They could invest another 40% to 60% of their funds into trading commodities (Gold, Silver, Copper, coffee, sugar, soya and etc.).
Returns could be good if they have some very good traders to can help them make extremely good money.
BTW, I am only speculating as I really do not know how TGL used their funds to sustain paying such has returns to their Gold investors.
Regards
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Victor Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 11:57 pm
Fact,
I do not know if TGL has a sound biz model. Anyone who is working as an employee will not be able to operate on this model to make a profit. But I think there is 1% of population out there who is able to make this a sound biz model. I observed that TGL Malaysia has been able to sustain their operation for more than 1 years.
Also looking at Genneva Malaysia who also can sustain their operations for more than 2 years. Genneva in Singapore has been around for more than a year. Genneva Singapore is paying 2% per month versus TGL’s 1.5% per month.
I can only safely project/conclude that TGL Singapore will certainly be around for the whole of year 2010.
In the meantime, you may want to take some calculated risk to invest in TGL for the next 6 months or 1 year to enjoy the high return of 9% every 6 months.
Just like any investment, you should make regular assessment of your portfolio.
Regards.
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Victor, as long as net inflow of cash exceeds net outflow, the biz will sustain, simply because they will have money to pay out the investors.
But if its the same number of investors continue their same amount of investments and just keep collecting the returns without increasing the amount invested, (i.e. 100 investors with say $10mil amount of money buying gold bars and selling it back and buying again with the same amount of money), I would like to see how TGL can sustain paying out 40% per annum contiually for 2 to 3 years, unless they have a fortune teller in theor trading dept that can accurately and consistently predict the direction of their trading to make money day in and day out.
Any biz model that depends purely on the increasing inflow of investors money and has no viable profit stream from actual transparent trading, does not come across as a sound biz model. Its just borrowing from John to pay Peter.
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John Reply:
February 8th, 2010 at 11:41 pm
Fact,
Looks like many of you out there are wrong about TGL.
From a mathematical approach, most of you are right.
But most of you did not understand the reason why TGL chooses GOLD as the collateral.
The reasons were:
1) TGL has an optimistic view of GOLD. GOLD is going to continue to climb all the way to USD 5K per troy ounce in the next 3 to 5 years.
2) For the big players who trade in physical GOLD, they need to pay for logistic and security cost to ensure that their physical GOLD are held safely. TGL’s scheme allows them to hold GOLD without paying for these charges. The retail GOLD investor keep the GOLD for TGL as most of them will continue to roll their investment thru’ the TGL Buy back scheme.
3) Look back at the historical price of GOLD for the past 5 years. GOLD prices rose at a 20% compounded growth every year! Imagine 5 years ago, GOLD price was at about USD 400.00 versus the current price of about USD 1100.00 per troy ounce.
4) TGL’s scheme allows retail investors to participate in GOLD investment and also create the demand for GOLD and therefore help to push up the GOLD prices.
5) TGL makes money from their initial 20% gain by buying at wholesale price and selling at retail price as well as when the GOLD price increase yearly.
In summary, as long as GOLD continue to rise at 20% compounded every year, TGL will continue to make good money and pay good rebates/dividends to their GOLD investors.
Its ceratinly a very valid biz for TGL over the past 3 years.
Cheers.
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John,
1) TGL has an optimistic view of GOLD. GOLD is going to continue to climb all the way to USD 5K per troy ounce in the next 3 to 5 years.
—> What has this got to do with TGl paying out 2% every mth? If they are optimistic that gold can climb to $5000 in 3 to 5 yrs time, it will be a lot cheaper for them to buy a long dated (LEAPS) Call option for 100 tons of gold. Why bother with all these massive administrative procedure selling and buying back the physical gold and paying investors interest?
Also, what if gold reverts back to US$200/ounce? “No way!” I hear you say. Well, even 100 years old bank can default. Dont assume.
2) For the big players who trade in physical GOLD, they need to pay for logistic and security cost to ensure that their physical GOLD are held safely. TGL’s scheme allows them to hold GOLD without paying for these charges. The retail GOLD investor keep the GOLD for TGL as most of them will continue to roll their investment thru’ the TGL Buy back scheme.
—–>What they are paying to investors is way much higher than the carry cost of physical gold. It is not that difficult to find out carry cost of gold. If you dont know how to find out, than you shouldn’t even be trying to trade or invest in physical gold. The fact that you even bring this up as an basis of TGL biz model goes to show how ill informed you are about the real gold market out there. Why dont to go to any goldsmoth shop and tell them you will safeguard their gold for them for 0.5% per mth and see what they tell you?
3) Look back at the historical price of GOLD for the past 5 years. GOLD prices rose at a 20% compounded growth every year! Imagine 5 years ago, GOLD price was at about USD 400.00 versus the current price of about USD 1100.00 per troy ounce.
——-> This is a sales pitch to get investors to invest with TGL. I will buy physical gold for 20% lesser and keep it as investment if I want to participate on the upside growth of gold. Why should investor trade back their gold for 2% returns and buy back again at new market price to roll for another 2% return? Are they really investing in gold’s price growth of are they just greedy for the 2% return which does not depend on which way the price of gold goes since TGL promised to buy back at original purchase price?
4) TGL’s scheme allows retail investors to participate in GOLD investment and also create the demand for GOLD and therefore help to push up the GOLD prices.
——–>Again, how does the retail investors participate in the price growth of Gold since their return is cap at 2% per mth? If Gold appreciates 10% in 1 mth, wouldn’t the investors be losing out on the additional 8% growth? And a few hundred kilograms of gold isn’t going to move the price of gold at all. Your arguement that TGL is creating demand for gold is laughable. Please go and find out how much above ground physical gold are there in the market right now.
5) TGL makes money from their initial 20% gain by buying at wholesale price and selling at retail price as well as when the GOLD price increase yearly.
——-> You dont even know what you are talking about. Even if TGL mark it up by 100%, they have to REFUND the investors that ORIGINAL purchase price at the end of the day. Where does TGL make any money from?
In summary, you are the type of investors that TGL targets for because you have no inkling how the gold market operates. MAS has a Gold department that invest and manages part of Singapore’s reserves in Gold. Why dont you suggest to TGL sell all their gold to MAS and promised them the same returns that TGL give to retails? I am sure MAS, or for that matter any bank’s treasury, would love to dump a few hundred million of their funds into such lucrative
returns.
Why dont TGL sell to all the fund manager’s and hedge fund’s here in Singapore? Why dont they tie up with all the private bankers and wealth managers and penetrate the High Net Worth market where they can easily raise tens of millions of dollars selling by hundreds of kilobars with just a handful of investors instead of going to the man in the street selling by the 50grams here, 100 grams there?
Oh, because they want to help the small investors because the rich are already rich so dont need to help them become richer? Sure. if you buy that, good luck to you.
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Lady Reply:
March 10th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
As for your last comment on selling to fund managers, lets say TGL does go to that stage.. Will the rebate of 2.5% still be offered? With so many parties involved, by the time it reaches the investors it might not be that attractive anymore.
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K Reply:
March 25th, 2010 at 11:04 pm
Dear fact,
You are brilliant. I hope people believe your logical reasoning instead of being sweet talked by the agents.
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the co definitely will disappear before end of 2010
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BP Reply:
March 1st, 2010 at 1:28 pm
you have information on this that you can enlighten us with?
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Hi,
I have discussed with some of my network – Merger & Acquistion Personels, Biz Directors & High Net Worth Private bankers, p’s: some of these smart guys have also invested with TGL.
They dont find anything wrong with this biz model as this is the way how banking system around the world are functioning.
In fact, they teach me how Oil industry are doing oil trading as well to earn money. Jus that they are rich, no need to do financing with your money. Else, they can even guranteed you 3% per mth!
For a very simple example:
Your Fixed Deposit 1% per year.
Your foreign currency 8% per year.
Your saving account 0.2% per year.
etc.
Hence, I felt there is no need to debate & discuss anymore.
In everything, its about comfort level.
if you feel comfortable putting money in bank, go ahead.
If you feel more comfortable putting money with a hard asset, go ahead.
Bank and any biz or company has default risk.
Understand the MAX downturn and that’s about it.
bank has a lot of loopholes. Why not let’s start a new thread abt bank? Im quite keen actually..
Esp with MINIBOND!!!
Cheers! God bless.
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K Reply:
March 25th, 2010 at 11:31 pm
Phua,
Make an effort to explain the sustainability of the biz model yourself. If you can’t, don’t just say Mr ABC says can and because he is rich and smart, it will surely work.
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If you have any queries about TGL in KL, I am reachable on ryan846@gmail.com. I am a Manager with TGL and we are based at Mid Valley MegaMall in KL.
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Phua,
There are several threads on minibonds already on this site. You obviously didn’t read or joined their discussion.
Don’t defray from the thread topic and try to sidetrack into something else.
If your rich HNW associates and private bankers finds nothing wrong with the biz model, than they should have set up the same biz model as TGL and made tons of money themselves instead of participating.
As a matter of fact, all the gold traders and retailers should go the same way as TGL.
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K Reply:
March 25th, 2010 at 11:06 pm
Precisely. Madoff had a lot of brilliant, successful and rich people investing with him too. Look at them now…
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watch out for this types of business!!!
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Hi all, finally I have finished reading all the comments given. Very educational for beginners like me.
Personal comment. Whichever investment carries risk. Seriously, we havent heard any complaints or grieves from anybody who is already investing in Genneva or TGL. I guess not “yet”. I suppose this “game” is to get in early and come out early. For all other investments, we are holding papers documents wherelse physical gold bars are in our possesions ( thou paying 20% more ) in case of closure of the company. Price of gold do flatuate. Personally I do look forward to go into this investment till the gold reached certain “spot price”.
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the problem with gold label and the company behind it not have yet have license from security comission to assured the public about their investment scheme although they say they are applying. they should get the license first then only they start operate. they also say they have good connection with security commission but a without the license it’s hard to make people feel safe.
they also claim that there are legitimate because they are operating in singapore but then i still feel the safest way is to get a black and white approval from bank negara and securuty commission.
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In Singapore they are registered as a “second hand goods dealer”. They are actively pitching their program as an investment while at the same time telling the authorities that they are just buying and selling second hand goods which in this case the goods happen to be physical gold.
As far as their clients are concern, they are “investing” with TGL, motivated by the returns disguised as “discount”. It is structure so as not to violate the securities and financial act of MAS. But in essence, it is still an investment.
The clock is ticking….
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concern Reply:
April 29th, 2010 at 12:35 am
Dear Fact
It is clear to me that TGL is a Ponzi scheme and I have a naive relative who is an agent. Can the police take action to stop TGL activities so that he does not go around conning people because of his ignorance?
thanks!
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anyone heard rumours about tan k l and gold label having some disputes which could make it to court?
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This is a new company.
Obviously all are hype up.
How many gold company which has the same model lasted more than 5 years?
Most fold, management got greedy & decide to just run once they’ve accumulate enough, got in trouble with the regulators, couldn’t match the demand with enough gold so they ask you to defered delivery with the promise of higher returns instead.
Change the labeling of it’s terms & wording many times, to defered the suspicions of the regulators.
Check the track records of such past companies.
Lets wait and see…
by the time all this ends, the creater would have make himself rich while the rest..wonders where their money has gone…
i don’t think this model has any sustainability plans.Unless the money keeps comin in.
the sales people will always be sales people.
& that is to pursuade…for a commision.
Either than that..i bet they know nuts about what what their bosses are up too..
Besides, the banks & other investment companies which sees it as competition to their own investment will not be too happy either. so it’s also politics if it all works out anyway with the regulators.
the safest bet is to see and wait…how all this this unfold..
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I have been trading with TGL for the past 3 months now. So far so good.
It is a calculated risks for me anyway, ‘cos I am also an investor in the stockmarket and I do lose money which sometimes wipe up the whole of my capital.
With TGL, the most I would lose is 20%-30% of my capital if the company default since I am holding to the Gold bars.
Thus, for someone like me this is not a bad investment risk at all.
I will keep you readers updated the first sign that TGL defaults on its promises. In the meantime, each is on his own.
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smile Reply:
March 17th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
May I know you holding paper gold or physical gold, in singapore its paper.
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atuk Reply:
March 18th, 2010 at 10:37 am
smile,
It’s hard solid Gold with accompanying certs. Wouldn’t have it any other way.
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The defered payment is a big risk.
The buy and take on the spot has less risk.
Prob is upon payment, is gold collected on the spot..on is there a time frame given before collection can be made.
My concern is..within that timeframe of waiting for collection…
What if the company decides to fold before collection has been made, lets say worse case scenario..would i be stuck with what has been paid but yet to collect?
If i get away with it the first time, what about the next monthly renewal? or the next…or someone else who’s unfortunate timing?
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Dass,
I got your email but your email address is hidden. Please email me your email address or day time contact no. I am reachable on ryan846@gmail.com. I will be in contact with you soon. Rgds.
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TGL website is gone… why?
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Anyone can shed some light on this piece of news?
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2010/2/9/nation/20100209163232&sec=nation
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Dear Suria,
The story started when Bank Negara Malaysia (BNM) raided 2 gold trading companies and freeze their accounts in July 2009 thus disabling the company from fulfiling its obligations to the customers.Customers who bought gold from one of these companies then took their gold to other companies offering to buy their gold at a discounts and then selling back the gold to them and giving them monthly rebates. One of these companies started doing business in August 2009 and after 3 months closed after taking the gold from their customers for “testing”. The total amount involved is conservatively estimated at RM60 million. Should you be interested in buying into gold schemes please exercise care because while there are many genuine gold traders, there may be people who are out for a quick profit. I can be contacted at my e-mail address : arieswyewye2010@yahoo.com
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Dear wolf,
I just went into the TGL Website. Maybe it was down for maintenance. Anyway for updates you can always e-mail : arieswyewye2010@yahoo.com
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Hi,
I have invested in TGL myself and is seeing the return that they promised.
Everyone has different risk portfolio so it is not a qns of whether its a scram or real investment.
High Return = High Risk
Low Return = Low Risk
I am holding the physical gold. The company is paying me the interest they promised up til now. If anything happens to the company, I still have to gold on hand (already verified with goldsmith shop that it is real), I am able to sell it in the market easily.
Yes, it would be at a lost if I sell it now – and that the risk.
However, holding gold is part of diversifying of your risk.
Investors that are not holding 15% of their savings in gold are at tremendous risk.
Gold should be part of every investor’s portfolio as a last line of defense as protection against the greed, stupidity and mismanagement of our politicians on both the state and federal level.”
I can be contacted at goldtalk@hotmail.com for more infor and interest in investing in THE GOLD LABEL (for SIngaporean only)
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My friend have ask me on being a salesperson for Gold Label. He brief me through a rough presentation on how it all goes about. I am a sales person myself and it all seems good, perhaps too good to be true.
What im concern about is the money of my clients because i do not have much in dept knowledge on gold investing.
From what i see, the worst case scenario is the closure of the company. which means the investor will stand to lose around 20% (unless he hold the the gold) and subject to market fluctuation since theirs is approved gold.
The company has been around for 2 years plus from what i see.
Does anyone have their background history?
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I’m a Singapore agent. Anyone interested to take part, email me: juzmoneygame@gmail.com. Any investor who is interested to invest, can contact me as well.
Eval of the company: Absolute ponzi.
Points for thought:
1. Company owner: No background of any kind of investment portfolio nor any related subsidiary company that has any kind of investment vehicles. There is no way for him to generate 200-300% return a year.
2. Company owner/s: Background from land banking.
3. Paid up capital in Singapore only $2 million.
4. No clear declaration of what business the company is into and how they can generate that kind of return. Even in agency provided training, the instructors also say he is guessing what company is doing and do not quote him. They claim they are trading/selling gold, but when ask in details who are the customers, it’s the so called investors, who actually are their creditors. Gold is a collateral here, so investors are not customers, but will come back to collect money. So where does the income comes from when there is no customers? The story does not gel.
Eval of risk for investor:
1. 2-3 days of risk when money paid, but wait for 2-3 days to collect your gold.
2. 2-3 days of risk to collect money when gold is sold back.
3. Out front risk:- 25-30% lost. And 100% lost during above items 1&2.
Why still become agent or invest?
- talk to my group for detail analysis.
- contact us for other valid investment option, though limited. (We have licensed fund manager, but you must be accredited investors.)
- if you are interested to play games, can also contact us.
Wish you a great time enjoying the game.
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JC Reply:
May 1st, 2010 at 11:39 am
Hi Agent,
I called and asked if I can get the gold with a bank draft and have money returned to me by bank draft – so that gold can be exchanged in good time with my money. The answer is YES. In normal perspective you normally pay first before you get hold of the ownership of the product. If you understand land banking it is the same procedure. You pay first, then they generate the papers and after everything is done you get your title deed…no wonder lawyers ran away, cause it is a hugh sum money, including property, so Singapore close this loop with no cheques issued to lawyer. However, for this gold investment, it starts with the minimum of 100g which is today’s cost it is about $6,400 per piece.
In all fairness, though I have not bought any gold, it is something we are not used to as a consumer. In Singapore we always hear about people getting duped into timeshare, but in Europe this is very normal to them. They have summer vacation that lasts 3 months. What do they do? They go for their holidays elsewhere, so this timeshare is great for them. To us? It is like we are duped into it because we could not do much within our “free” time. We do not have 3 months vacation like them, so the effect is different.
If you think about it carefully, most if not all the trading company usually deals with trading only. When they make enough money they go into properties, etc; for physical assets. I did a spreadsheet computation and found that even if the company does nothing with the money collected (by the way customers are the ones who pay for the recommended retail pricing, not the wholesale price they get) they still will make money as the physical gold is recycled to the next batch of customers. Not every company will tell you what they do when they started as they also want to know how much of business can be generated and eventually which path to take. If you track the gold price over the last 10 years it is still going up and in an independent report I read it will continue to go up with Greece, Spain, Portugal, etc; going bust in their economy.
If you think it is better to put your money into the banks, into structured units, etc; and saw what happened to those who took their lives because their money is gone with the last crisis, you would have thought, if only it is physical gold I am holding now….
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Agent Reply:
May 1st, 2010 at 11:43 pm
JC,
I’m interested in your spreadsheet. Please send me: juzMoneyGame@gmail.com.
Since you mentioned you have not bought the gold, but believe so much in this scheme, I can help you purchase gold via TGL since I’m the agent. I will help you with your investment with TGL for long term. But if you have some reservation, you can talk to us for a mitigating strategy.
TGL copycat Geneva. You can have gold or cash immediately at Geneva, fyi. BTW, have you walked into jewellery shop or UOB to buy gold? Do they ask you to come back 2 days later to collect gold? Please do not use land banking model to compare. Apple cannot compare to orange.
You are very good in telling stories. Do you want to join us become an agent as well? I believe you will do very well as an agent as your smoke bomb is very powerful. Are you in land banking before? Otherwise I thought you should already be in the club.
Any business that is far fetch and yet people is worried in this region just says that the same model does not apply here. Like you said, Europeans have long 3 months vacation which we do not have. Again, apple cannot compare to orange. But it’s a very good smoke to throw.
There are few points you mentioned that I hope you can further enlighten:
1. Who are TGL customers? Please do not say the investors are customers. Investors DO NOT buy from TGL. Investors are TGL creditors who loan money to TGL in exchange for gold as collateral. So please do not be confused, unless you are being conned into. Ultimately the gold returned back or what TGL called “sell back” to them for the principal to be returned to investors. As the “goods” (gold) has not been sold or traded for a profit by the company, it is obvious investors are definitely NOT customers. So, the big question is: Who are TGL customers?
2. TGL is wholesaler?? You implied that TGL is wholesaler – “by the way customers are the ones who pay for the recommended retail pricing, not the wholesale price they get”. How do you verify? We have gotten TGL gold that stamps UOB. It’s very interesting why do they obtain from UOB if they are wholesaler? As a wholesaler, then who are their customers?
3. Unknown company background. You said “Not every company will tell you what they do when they started as they also want to know how much of business can be generated and eventually which path to take.” This type of profile fits exactly like all the games in the market. Very simple. Look at what they are doing – promising consistent return. Look at the founders or people who started the company – in what capacity can they promise this type of return??
You are right that we should look at different asset class. However, do note that not many needs to hold physical gold in order to protect their investment. If you need protection, do talk to us.
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Hi everyone,
Whether it is Fact, or Victor or Lady, etc;
If you want a sample of spreadsheet I did let me know. I believe it explains how the sustaining power is being generated and how money flows to the company and eventually to the investors and marketing agents.
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BP Reply:
May 6th, 2010 at 11:17 am
hi JC,
can you email me the spreadsheet?
thanks
aceyourmath@gmail.com
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Agent Reply:
May 6th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
JC,
Thanks for sharing your spreadsheet. As we have exchanged a few emails, I have tried my best to help identify and correct your spreadsheet.
As mentioned, you have forgotten to consider the 20% upfront gain by the company which needs to return to the investors or creditors during sellback. Once you put that in your month 6 revenue column, the balance sheet suddenly appears very unhealthy based on your initial data input. I believe it will show you a negative balance sheet.
I have not heard from you since asking you to put this into place. But as mentioned, the spreadsheet is heavily flawed. To be responsible, please correct it with the points mentioned to you before you want to send to others.
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Hi,
According to recent trend, it shows that the price of GOLD has been increasing.
INVESTMENT – it all depends on the risk appetite of an individual.
There is risk to ALL investment, however I feel that it is ok to park some of my money into this investment as the return is really high and the gold is in my possession. I feel comfortable holding gold than papers.
In my view, even if the company folds, gold is an appreciating tangible asset which can be traded easily in the market.
Just bear in mind – investment is based on individual risk appetite.
(1) Invest if you are comfortable with the risk.
(2) Invest slightly if the return is really high to give it a try since there is risk in all investment, why not invest in something which gives a high return.
(3) Invest nothing if you are super risk adverse as there is no risk-free investment. Keep all your money under your pillow as bank can fold too. ;P
Interested to learn more about this investment plan, feel free to contact me @ goldtalk@hotmail.com
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Agent Reply:
May 2nd, 2010 at 3:35 pm
There are many kinds of investment with different kind of risk. Most importantly, the lower the risk, the better, no matter what risk appetite one has.
It is no brainer that we always trade a minimum downside for a much higher upside potential. Why will I want to buy a house during the property bubble, knowing the potential upside is only a mere 10%, but the potential downside correction is 25%? Why do I want to hold the cash in the physical house sitting there doing nothing just waiting for a long time to only break even at 25%?
Even if you are not a business owner and have not consider investment return before, it is also the same in the corporate working life. You will be questioned like hell by your boss why will you want to risk a 25% lost for a mere 9% gain for the company?!
With an appetite of 25% downside, there are many instrument out there that can give you a potential upside of 50% or more.
Do more homework and invest wisely.
Appetite of 25% potential loss is considered high risk person, especially with no understanding of what business you are getting into. If you are interested in these types of high risk games, I can help as well. These games’ upsides are much higher and you are also given physical items to hold in your hand. Do write to me: JuzMoneyGame@gmail.com
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Agent Reply:
May 7th, 2010 at 1:05 am
I need to correct a statement I made at the last paragraph above. By saying “physical items to hold in your hand”, after talking to some people, I realised that those are still not physical enough. I’m still holding on to paper cert, though return is high.
Sorry for the mistake.
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Just put investment in gold with TGL.
The price I bought is S$63.2 per gram
TGL give me guaranteed 12% return (S$8.083 per gram profit) within 6 months.
Did some research on how they can give me this guarantee.
Checked the price of gold bullion is around US$1160 per troyounce converted to US$37.29 per gram (1 gram = 0.0321507466 troy ounces) or S$51.09 per gram.
http://www.monex.com/prods/gold_chart.html
http://www.goldprice.org/gold-price-per-gram.html
Day one TGL get money from me at S$63.2 and bought gold at S$51.09. Day one they already make profit 23.7% (S$12.11 per gram).
Thus with 23.7% profit, they can pay my guaranteed 12% return, and remainings are payment for commission to agent, operating expenses and profit for themselves.
I am not an expert in gold, I may be screwed in this investment, but looking at the above, it seems to me that they can generate good profit and should be able to pay my 12% in six month, and hopefully could be a good way to diversified my fund.
Also have done ROC check for the company:
Seems like a legit business ROC reg no: 200907468G,
registered in Singapore on 28 April 2009 with paid in capital S$1.23million. So far, there seems to be no negative hit on media check on shareholders at this point.
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lioninvestor Reply:
May 3rd, 2010 at 7:44 am
Sam,
There is no $12.11 profit for TGL if they have to buy back the gold from you eventually at a higher price than what they sold you.
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Agent Reply:
May 3rd, 2010 at 12:54 pm
Sam,
You are right. Day 1 they may probably made over 20% profit. But that’s it. So I believe you meant to say Day 2 the company has to close shop to keep that profit. Otherwise, the company have to return the full 20+% profit back to investors as promised as sellback option. Furthermore, the company has to pay interest of 9% to investors, and another >6% to agents like me as commission, not considering other operational cost. So you are right, Day 1 they make profit, and full stop, close shop. Otherwise, what we see is they are going to build up heavy debts, as it seems there are only creditors, many of them, but no customers.
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Dear Lioninvestor,
Please note that the Trade-in price states the the Trade-in price is 97.5% of the purchase price, regardless of the price of gold on the date of the trade-in. The balance 2.5% is covered by voucher issued at the time of purchase and cashable at the time of Trade-in. Please note that the 2.5% is for the Malaysian market.
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I check their website and it is very suspicious.
The gold label website is diyweb.mi.com.my
mi.com.my is domain register website.
Visit
http://www.mi.com.my/diyweb.php/#about_diyweb
and search for ” Be a DIY Web Administrator ” (without “).
Look at the company there
Malaysia-Industry Dot-Com Sdn Bhd (Co. No: 300448-W)
8-2, Jalan 9/125D, Taman Desa Petaling, 57100 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
Tel: 603-90583718, Fax: 603-90580935.
Can someone look at it.
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Let’s run through the numbers one more time using round figure for easy understanding.
I sell you a gold bar for $1000. You physiclly posses the bar. The invoice state $1000. You pay me cash $980 for the gold bar.
I promise to buy back the very same gold bar I sold you in 30 days time for $1000, as per the original invoice.
Thus, you make $20 because you cash outflow was $980 and after 30 days, your cash in flow is $1000. (1000-980=20, for some of you that already lose at this juncture).
Does it matter what is the cost of the gold bar? Whether the company buys it at 20% lower or for that matter even if they have bought it at 50% (ie $500), its inmaterial.
For those of you who are still lost, replace the gold bar with a chocolate bar. You pay $980 for the chocolate bar and in 30 days time, the company buys back the chocolate bar for $1000.
Does it matter how much the company pay for the chocolate bar? It doesn’t matter as long as your get to sell it back to them for $1000.
So, in the whole transcation cycle, 1 gold bar was swapped for $980 and in 30 days time, the cycle is reverse and $1000 change hands.
Where did the $20 come from?
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Agent,
are you really an agent?
If you are agent, do you know that this is not an investment?
It is simply gold purchase at a 9% discount that comes with a sell-back option, period.
If you’re really agent, then u must be a really unethical one because you are using all the wrong terms and giving all the wrong signals.
People, please beware.
JC,
can u email me a sample of the spreadsheet u did?
I’m an agent in Singapore. Maybe we can discuss further.
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steve Reply:
May 5th, 2010 at 8:13 pm
JC,
Can I have a copy of it as well?
My email address : stvlaw@gmail.com
Thanks!
AndyLee,
Are you agent from GV or TGL?
Regards.
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andylee Reply:
May 15th, 2010 at 3:28 am
Hi Steve,
I’m an agent from TGL
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Agent Reply:
May 6th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
Andy Lee,
You are obviously not an agent at all! And I’m very surprised you parachute into this discussion from nowhere! Nor it seems like you are never approached by any agent or agency head to talk about TGL!
Tell me who in this forum is not talking about investing in gold and in TGL? Did you read the thread at all? And tell me why will an agent approach you if you are not interested in investing in gold?
So you just want to simply purchase gold at 9% rebate? Didn’t you do your homework to find out that you can get the same gold at UOB at a huge 20% cheaper?! (You obviously had not gone through this thread which states that many times). Or didn’t your agent told you about that? If you are an agent, are you ethical enough to tell people please buy gold at 20% discount, forget about 9% rebate?
In the first place why are you here if you are not interested in investing in gold?
My friend, do you know what you are talking about? Please do not accuse others when you do not have the fact right or else you are allowing others to personally attack you as a naive stupid fool who don’t know his stuff.
We are here discussing about the company. To give comments on a company, we have the responsibility to fact find before commenting in public. So who can know better than an agent? Unless you are close to the owners and knowing something else that we don’t know? Everyone of us learnt from the agency head that he is also guessing the business of the company.. So maybe you like to enlighten us?
Andy Lee, tell us what is your intention? You have not make any further clarification on our facts nor enlighten us facts that we may not know, but simply giving sweeping statement and accusation. Can we, without knowing who you are nor stating what is wrong with you, but just simply say that you are a stupid idiot?
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andylee Reply:
May 15th, 2010 at 3:40 am
Agent,
If u are really an agent from TGL, you will know that TGL stressed many times on the point that they are not an investment company, this is not an investment program.
So what if i parachute in from nowhere to join the discussion? it is because im not so free to come in here to talk nonsense everyday.
And of cos, if u’re interested in investing in gold, go to UOB! TGL program is not for u to invest thru capital appreciation.
so here u’re saying that u’re an agent giving facts about the company and how they do their business? If u can give the facts, then u shld be earning alot already, how come so free be keyboard hero?
Guys here,
think this way. TGL is making 20% profit on every sale made. over 6 months, this spread is increasing. hmm.. i had actually typed out everything but deleted away. if anyone is interested to know more, can come to me privately. in case some rouge Agent stole my idea.
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JC, pls email copy of our spreadsheet to me, thanks!
santikappp@yahoo.com
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hi JC,
do email me your copy as well. Thanks!!
xcelon82@yahoo.com.sg
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There has been rumours saying that Bank Negara has raided TGL’s office.
Anyone can confirm or had details on it?
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There has been rumours saying that Bank Negara has raided TGL’s office.
Anyone can confirm or has details on it?
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Hi JC, kindly send me the spreadsheet. Thanks.
farnling@gmail.com
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Do you all able to know the actual issues, about the Bank Negara has raided TGL’s office in KL?
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uh-oh, was TGL only raided or did this effect Geneva as well?
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Bank Negara Malaysia Investigates The Gold Label Sdn Bhd
Bank Negara Malaysia has commenced investigations into The Gold Label Sdn Bhd under suspicion of conducting illegal deposit taking and money laundering activities in breach of subsection 25(1) Banking and Financial Institutions Act 1989 (BAFIA) and subsection 4(1) of Anti-Money Laundering and Anti-Terrorism Financing Act 2001 (AMLATFA) respectively.
The raid on The Gold Label Sdn Bhd was conducted yesterday at its premises in Northpoint Offices, Tower A Mid Valley City, Kuala Lumpur following complaints received from members of the public. Relevant assets and documents of the company were seized for purpose of investigation.
Members of the public are reminded to remain cautious and avoid placing money or deposits with companies not licensed by Bank Negara Malaysia. The list of licensed institutions authorized to accept deposits is available on Bank Negara Malaysia’s website (www.bnm.gov.my).
Members of the public should be wary of investing in get-rich-quick schemes to avoid losing their savings and money to fraudulent parties. Further information on illegal financial schemes can be obtained from the Financial Fraud Alert site at http://fraudalert.bnm.gov.my.
For further enquiries, members of the public can contact Bank Negara Malaysia at the following contact points:
BNMTELELINK (Customer Service Call Centre)
Tel: 1-300-88-5465
Fax: 03-2174 1515
Email: bnmtelelink@bnm.gov.my
(Business hours: Monday – Friday, 9:00 am – 5:00 pm)
OR
Hotlines: 03 2698 5708 / 2698 5724 / 2698 5776 / 2698 5785
Fax: 03 2698 7467
OR
BNMLINK (Walk-in Customer Service Centre)
Block D, Bank Negara Malaysia
Jalan Dato’ Onn
50480 Kuala Lumpur
(Business hours: Monday – Friday, 9:00 am – 5:00 pm)
Or Visit BNMLINK branches in Bank Negara Malaysia Johor Bahru, Penang, Kuala Terengganu, Kota Kinabalu and Kuching.
Bank Negara Malaysia
7 May 2010
© Bank Negara Malaysia, 2010. All rights reserved.
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Wow, thanks for sharing the news!! I almost want to join the company as an associate so i was searching for information about it.
We shall see what the investigation reveal!
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WoW. . . Started not too long ago and kena raided.
Claimed that they are aboveboard, now also kena from BNM.
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Hi JC, can send me the spreadsheet too? Thank!
My email is amoskng@pacific.net.sg
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Is GV being raided too?
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Hi,
I have been a long term investor with TGL and have known the people running for some time. I also have invested in many legitimate investment companies. I only have this to say, do not believe everything that Bank Negara reports. The main reason they target high yield investment companies is to protect the government and financial institutions. As the law for financial institutions are they not allowed to market any investment with more than 10%/annum returns, this is done to protect the governments lousy bonds which only give 10% per annum.
Since the current government is in need of $, they are coming down hard on any investment company that generates more than 10%/annum whether it is legitimate or not. Making their bonds seem attractive when its not. TGL in Singapore is fully backed by the many authorative concerns and is licensed legally to operate there. Last count was 6 including the monetary board.
Our current federal government is robbing us of many really good and safe investments. So just a warning and hope youre not taken in.
As for how TGL make their $, just imagine that every 20%+ they make, they can buy more gold with that 20% and trade that 20% every month from every customer and only pay the clients up to 3%/mth max as of today.
This is possible due to the controlled gold prices in Malaysia, which does not follow the open market. Which is also another venue for TGL to reap more profits from the difference in open market price. Of course all of these companies must calculate the maximum amount of gold they can trade to maintain the flow and profit from the market. There will always be a maximum trade amount cap to make it viable for the long term.
Us investors must stay together and fight for the right to invest in investments that are safe yet able to generate more than 10%/annum.
All the best.
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Agent Reply:
May 10th, 2010 at 2:37 am
Racedude,
So you know the people running it? Tell us who are they and what are they business are they doing?
You are such a good joker! Your government in need of $?? I think TGL is in luck then! Why don’t you tell the TGL people you know to approach the government directly? Don’t need to come to so many small investors. Waste of time and so troublesome. Government in need of $ still have enough big $ for TGL to generate more big $. And TGL can keep portion which is very big enough compared to collecting from us.
So why will BNM go after them if they can help the government generate more $? In fact, if don’t go for government $, then approach the bank for loan lah! Loan from bank only a few % compared to using this scheme to loan from us at 18% so high. So is the people at TGL stupid?
And who are the TGL customers who pay them 20%+ ?? Can you enlighten us who are TGL customers? Todate we have not seen a single one yet.
We see TGL has many creditors. All taking their gold as collateral. TGL has been borrowing so much money from investors. They are in big problem, big debt!
If I’m the investor who take back every dollar that I pay to you upfront, what profit do you made? This had been mentioned so many times. You are so naive.
Let me try again with this scenario: You give me your S$1 gold coin (Singapore currency has a coin that valued at S$1 and golden in color). I give you S$1,000 but with a promise you are going to return me $1,090 (9% interest) in 6 months time when I return you the $1 gold coin. Can you tell me 6 months down the road are you making a profit of $999?? Am I your customer?
Furthermore, don’t forget agent fees and operational costs monthly. So can you tell me who are TGL’s customers and how does TGL generate such a high income from their customers to pay us creditors and agents for our interest and agent fees??
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newcomer Reply:
May 10th, 2010 at 10:24 am
Kindly elaborate how the $999 derived from?
I look at it as 1090-1000=90, why 999?
Thx.
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Agent Reply:
May 11th, 2010 at 1:47 am
Many either got conned themselves, or trying to con others to think that there is a 20%+ profit made by TGL when they borrow $ from investors.
The scenario is to ask these people to think over is this a profit or is it a loss. I thought it is too obvious.
These people is trying to con you to think that by borrowing $1000 from you and giving you a $1 gold coin as collateral, you are making a profit of $999 (1000-1).
But down the road, you have to return that $1000 with an interest of $90. So where is the profit??
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newcomer Reply:
May 11th, 2010 at 10:28 am
If i place a deposit with a bank with a $1000 FD, bank gives me an interest of $90 (let’s say, ignore the %rate p.a. for the moment), so you think where is the profit ??
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Agent Reply:
May 12th, 2010 at 2:01 am
If you are asking where is the profit from the bank if the bank give away $90 interest, then I can tell you the bank is doing its banking business. Just see for yourself how much bank is giving interest and how much interest bank is charging its borrower.
So, think of TGL. Who are their customers? TGL is giving me so high interest return, but todate no one knows who are their customers. So can you tell me where TGL profit comes from? What business they are into??
Don’t throw smoke to compare with a bank. TGL is no bank nor investment company. Apple cannot compare to orange. Bank has legitimate business. Depositors are NOT the source of income for banks. Banks have borrowers which were charged much higher interest than depositor’s interest. Plus other financial instruments and businesses.
So can you tell me TGL lend our money to who? Who is willing to borrow from TGL with such a high interest, which must compensate investors, agents and operational cost?? Or what did TGL do with our money to generate high return? If they are so smart, why don’t TGL do the same as bank, borrow from Central Bank?
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Agent Reply:
May 12th, 2010 at 2:06 am
BTW, please don’t waste people’s time. Don’t ask silly questions without using your brain. Goto questions raised before. Answer them first in order to ask more smart questions.
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Racedude, I am speechless. The state of denial can make one believe in almost anything.
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hmm, we have to see what the investigation finds out then. For me, i don’t really trust the malaysian government but i will still be looking out for any possible bad news.
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Sigh .. too fast too early. Only just started and raided already. How can we do anything at all? Now what? Does it mean their account is going to be frozen as well?
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does The Gold Label gives actual gold to all the customer or also provide another scheme where customer can have the option to get better returns by not receiving the gold? thanks
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andylee Reply:
May 15th, 2010 at 3:51 am
TGL singapore has 2 programs. one is u hold the gold in ur hands, the other hand is gold kept at Cisco security
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andylee Reply:
May 15th, 2010 at 3:52 am
andylee25022000@hotmail.com
want to know further feel free email me. here got rouge Agent, if say anything will get scolding
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a memo was circulated in bank negara that orders the raid into ALL gold companies, so absolutely no one is safe, even those that they claim there are politicians owned and connected to bank negara, now reality speaks
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“Agent” wrote:
BTW, please don’t waste people’s time. Don’t ask silly questions without using your brain. Goto questions raised before. Answer them first in order to ask more smart questions.
My Dear “Agent”,
Firstly I do not know you, you could be a agent from Banks or from Goldshops or from GV, perhaps. I am a Newcomer, just came to this Forum and still learning from you all guys…
I treated you as a Agent or Consultant and therefore consult you to clear my doubt. I do not know so I ask, you know then you answer, that is simple. We discuss issues here as gentlemen like many others here. Why get agitated so easily? Why so upset?
Please show your professionalism by telling us the facts you know and if you think that this company violates business ethics, report the case to authority. I am listening… Why get agitated so easily? Why so upset?
Dear all friends here, “Agent”’s answers are not helpful but just answering questions by throwing more questions, he is actually in the act of throwing smoke.
If he thinks that he is wasting time here, he can jolly well DONT write nor reply, wasting OUR time to read.
Why get agitated so easily? why so upset? Be happy …
Good day.
Newcomer.
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Agent Reply:
May 13th, 2010 at 12:24 am
I have to apologise for the rude comment. My apology.
I had tried and tried very hard to give a better analogy and thought it has been very obvious. Still, here comes an open ended question which is not relevant and totally comparing the wrong thing without due consideration to the underlying business for comparision.
I understand that this TGL offer is way too good. Many people is trying their way to bluff even themselves into believing it by giving all kinds of non-relevant reasons. Some of the smokes look so convincing.
But the most important motivator is the agent fees. It’s good free money without risk. But like one mentioned before, ethic. Some consider money more important than ethic.
There are no newer questions thrown. All are super old questions no one had answered. Even TGL agency heads said they are guessing. Why should a valid company left people guessing?
These questions are still so fresh, not sure why there is a need to refresh:- “Who are the owners and in what capacity can they generate close to 200-300% pa return?”; “Who are TGL customers?”; “What did they do to generate such a high return?”
Newcomer, Sorry I do not have answers for you or anyone. I have questions. Just a few, stated above. I am here also trying to look for answers. But seems like no one on earth knows what the hell TGL is doing as a going business.
If you are accusing me of throwing smoke, do state where are the smoke. Generalising without facts just make yourself looks like a fool.
And how do you know that someone already reported?
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This has nothing to do with the TGL issue but I just can’t swallow some of the remarks that was made by Agent.
Agent’s remarks
“if they can help the government generate more $? In fact, if don’t go for government $, then approach the bank for loan lah! Loan from bank only a few % compared to using this scheme to loan from us at 18% so high. ”
“Bank has legitimate business. Depositors are NOT the source of income for banks. Banks have borrowers which were charged much higher interest than depositor’s interest. Plus other financial instruments and businesses.”
Apparently you have either never worked with a bank or you are one of those naive people. The banks are what we call legal “ah longs” which means they are legally robbing us.
Do you think no one has approached any government before on this? The government bodies have regulations and these regulations can prevent them from investing into this. Have you ever thought of that? As for approaching bank for loans.. How much do you think a bank can loan a company? 200m? 300m? and if the company just started can they get that amount of loan? the answer is a NO, NO, and NO!
For your info, depositors are a source of funds for banks to borrow money. If all depositors were to withdraw all their funds from the bank, the banks will collapse. Don’t believe it, why don’t we all withdraw our money from banks and we watch what happens. Is our money the reason why banks are prospering or is it the borrowings?
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Agent Reply:
May 12th, 2010 at 11:46 pm
I’m not sure if my english is so poor for you to understand or you choose what you want to read.
“Depositors are NOT the source of income for banks.” means “Banks don’t take our money, keep it there, and let the money grow by itself”.
“Banks have borrowers which are charged much higher interest than depositor’s interest.” means “like you said, they are legal ah longs which loan out at much higher interest”.
So, like you said, they are legal ah long, using our money to loan out at higher rate. Did I not say that in the first place and need you to rephrase?
Now, you say “Do you think no one has approached any government before on this?”. What “this” are you referring to? TGL? Then show me what business plan you are using? Like I keep asking, how TGL generate money? I don’t see them loan out our money like bank. I don’t see a single investment arm/department in the company. So how are you going to write the proposal to approach potential VC?
Bank will not loan out big amount at this crisis period. Don’t need to be old or new. But VC is still available and there are many providers looking for project funding.
Yes. If all depositors withdraw the money, the banking system will collapse. But it does not stop there. The debt market will collapse as well and affect the rest of the economy. It is not that simple. Watch out for the coming crisis.
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andylee Reply:
May 15th, 2010 at 4:01 am
Agent,
i see ur comments really childish here. u really think a company will tell the whole public about their business operations so that new start-ups can copy their operations and steal the market share?
for banking system u heard about fractional reserve banking? deposit multiplication? liquidity ratio? how a bank can generate more than $30k of fake money from a $10k deposit? bank use A’s deposit to let B do withdrawal what.
please go get more knowledge b4 talking further leh.
Guys here,
i strongly advise u guys to ignore Agent. he’s a tough fighting cock
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Here’s a realy funny comment told to me by a TGL agent.
He say Bank Negara is upset that many depositors are withdrawing money from the banking system to place with TGL’s gold investment program which yield better returns.
As such, the central bank need to put a stop to this liquidity drain hence they initiated this raid to stop TGL from getting more money.
.
.
.
I look at that guy in the eye and I saw a deep hollow space behind it. Shake my head and walk away…….I dont know to laugh or to cry. :O
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Lady Reply:
May 17th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
I think banks are upset not bank negara. not at TGL because the amount is not very significant. It is more towards all the companies doing MLM business, offshore investments and also the gold companies out there.
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Every single Gold Investment company that run on such model has been clam down in the last 2 years and each time one shuts down, another new one sprouts out. Average life span is about 12 mths before they get busted.
Why does this happen? Are the same people behind this cat and mouse game?
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newcomer Reply:
May 17th, 2010 at 10:27 pm
Hi, “fact”,
hmm… can you list those Gold Inv Companies which had been ‘clam-down’ in the last 2 years…. appreciated.
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fact Reply:
May 18th, 2010 at 7:38 am
Here’s one recent one:
http://www.malaysianmirror.com/homedetail/45-home/29537-60-allege-rm25m-losses-in-gold-scam-
GV gold and TGL. There’s 2 more but i need to go dig out the names of the company. One operated in Spore back in early 2008 and lasted about 6 mths thereabouts before the took flight.
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andylee Reply:
May 19th, 2010 at 12:08 am
i don’t think this case is referring to TGL or GV, cos both are still operating.
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Is GV still operating and taking in investments? TGL still business as usual in Malaysia after the raid on 7th May?
Really?
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sama-sama Reply:
May 22nd, 2010 at 12:52 pm
yes TGL is still in operation but they are not continueing with the trade, so we agents gotta move on, quite a lot of us has gone over to the competitor and awaiting the release of our client’s gold from Cisco
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Just an update, if you have purchased gold from TGL kindly contact your agent for options of cashing out in the event you do not want to wait for outcome on the investigation. In 2 weeks the official options will be announced. Although no laws were broken by TGL, I can foresee a long draggy affair with Bank Negara. Example Geneva, will be 1 year next month and no solution in sight.
I converted mine to land banking and also another option on derivatives. Full 100% conversion will be given on the price of your gold purchased. Thanks.
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Dear Racedude,
You show that you are shouldering your responsibilities to your customers and had unselfishly kept the TGL customers in general informed developments which may help to resolve their problems. This is the spirit to be emulated and not like some agents who are still living in history and wanting to prove their perfection at the expense of their customers who had contributed to the commission they earned. Thank you.
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HI Jeff,
Thanks for your compliments but I’m not an agent. I’m just an ordinary investor. However I know some of you are investors as well and may be feeling a little strained with the ongoing investigation. I’m just trying to rest your fears that you do have other options and in no way are your investment at risk.
I have faith in this company as they have helped me in time of need. While investing I had some cashflow troubles due to unforseen circumstances and even though my investment was not matured enough to cash out they helped me get my cash back with the minimal of loss on my side.
Now they have also helped me to convert my Gold purchased to other investment opportunities they have which is running fully with the permission of Bank Negara. Hence there will not be any questions asked in the future.
I also have a very good and reliable agent there.
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There are more than 300 agents from TGL joined us in SGV, i think we should have tops 500+ of them. Cisco gold would be much later,as of now they have already transected their current clients over almost immediately
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theBaldGuy Reply:
May 23rd, 2010 at 1:01 am
oh really? God bless them
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mr.pamp Reply:
May 23rd, 2010 at 9:57 am
What mekes them so sure they will get their Cisco stocks release so fast? It probably takes a year or more. As what i know everything is frozen even in Cisco,if they want to touch it means the bosses dont mind going to jail and ruin their mother co SWM as well.
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Dear All,
In the end it is the agents who are making the money and lauging all the way to the bank leaving the Uncles and Aunties to fend for themselves. My dear “Agent” from TGL with all her “superiority” and “loyalty” may even be among those “crawling” to Samudra GV. Maybe, her excuse is “to help the uncles and aunties” lah. Please beware!
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guardian angel Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 11:53 pm
where ever they go will still be short lived
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Would like to meet agent from TGL Malaysia?
Anyone out there?
Please contact me via stvlaw@gmail.com
Regards.
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I’m just curious about one thing, that RaceDude has mentioned that the company is offering alternatives etc etc… but from what other people have mentioned and some other sources, that even the accounts of the directors in TGL has been frozen.. are they allowed to even do such things to offer said alternatives?
Forgive my lack of knowledge on such things. I truly am curious.
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Yes. That’s what I heard as well. have not heard any updates from TGL with regards to offering alternatives. Think my agent is terrible
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Honda (KL) Reply:
June 13th, 2010 at 1:58 am
i think your agent had fled to SGV
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I called up Bank Negara which they mentioned all their assest has been frozen pending for investigations. This will take between 6- 12 mths. Thereafter will depends on whether Attorney General will charge them.
I am yet to receive any updates from TGL with regards to the options available.
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charlie Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 9:58 am
i know their new products thats going to be launched, but i doubt that their agents will be agrassive with it, even their land banking pays 8% and still had an uphill task when they first launched it, whats more if this one is paying less?
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guardian angel Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 10:38 am
so i guess thats why their agent switch over to Samudra, they cant even eccept 8% or less on a one-off basis and rather go for the gold that pays monthly, or is it the product is so damm easy to sell? i somehow know bout their new product and my opinion is not easy to convince also, quite similar to land banking but different structure.
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There seems to be resources saying that TGL was a victim of jalousy,and the culprit that ruined them was PB. Its because their PB mutual was doing badly in their sales and blamed the gold companies for it. They (PB) then filled a compalint to BNM to shut them down. It seems even the previous Genneva shut down was also the handy work of PB
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fact Reply:
June 9th, 2010 at 10:07 am
Urban legend.
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LolCat Reply:
June 10th, 2010 at 2:51 pm
I like all these accusations of jealousy, government conspiracies etc.. anything people use to “support”. I have seen 1 person on this list who was shilling that I know for sure works for the company but he/she doesn’t reveal that, and that he/she has a rather high position in the company. Shows the honesty of TGL in my book.
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I think the most important thing is whether we would be able to get refund ? any ideas guys?
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Honda (KL) Reply:
June 13th, 2010 at 1:44 am
it all depends if their bank account is released or not
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Hi to all,
I have already read the discussions from the very start of the thread. Pls allow me to thank the thread starter and all the people who imparted their knowledge (both positive and negative) about gold in general and about Geneva,Gold label and Samudra-GV in particular.
I am from the Philippines, Manila and Samudra-GV is about to start their business here.
But unlike in Malaysia and Singapore where they give 2.5% and 2.0% monthly return/interest respectively, here in Manila they are offering a 1.5%. The guaranteed buy back period is 6 months.
However, the gold wafer here does not bear any serial numbers and it has a Philippine map on it.
We don’t know for sure if the gold wafer that they offer here is genuine one. Samudra- GV claims it is 999.99 gold.
May I ask if this Samudra-GV still continue to operate there in Singapore in Malaysia?
Many thanks in advance.
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Honda (KL) Reply:
June 13th, 2010 at 1:42 am
as far as i know, SGV is genuine in their products but however their ethics in business operations is not so trustworthy
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a friend of mine who is an agent in SWM which is the agency for Gold Label told me that their optional products that suppose to replace the gold trade is not going to happen in the next few months due to the custodian bank in UK is not willing to coorporate until SWM can pump in mass amount of money which amounts up to USD$50-100M,if thats so, they are pretty much stuck with land banking dont they?
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John De'lous Reply:
June 13th, 2010 at 3:13 am
oh is it? well i guess the only ’safe’ product they can do is the land banking for the time being, what makes them think that if they do this new product will guarantee good response? Is it because of this new scheme they wanted to devalope made them come out with the Cisco plan which sparked suspision of BNM. What are they thinking?
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LolCat Reply:
June 14th, 2010 at 11:08 am
Hmmm isn’t Land banking in itself a rather .. gray area of investment?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_banking#Controversies
I don’t know what SWM’s style is, but I know that the owner’s of SWM used to be from Walton International (and they are currently being sued by Walton by the way) and that an entire company that does nothing but things like this leads me to wonder their credibility. Of course, I am just basing my opinion on that Wiki thing and I could be entirely wrong on their methods.
Regards
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I will trust the gold label to pay back all their clients. pl give them more time to do it.
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Dear Amus,
As I mentioned TGL is the gold trading company which had adhered to all the “guidelines” given in this un-regulated business and is doing its best under the circumstances to alleviate the difficulties faced by their customers, one of which is to switch their customers to the regulated business. TGL was raided due to business rivalry either from the banks or from competitors.
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http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2010/7/28/business/6745312&sec=business
I find it interesting the article says that The Gold Label is being investigated for deposit taking AND Money Laundering.
Just curious, is money laundering investigations normal for these type of cases?
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Dear Lolcat,
Gold trading is not a regulated business and therefore could not be investigated for any breach of the rules and regulations of the business. Hence, Bank Negara Malaysia (BNM) went in on the pretext of investigating The Gold Label for “Money Laundering” and “Deposit Taking”. Everybody in the market knows that The Gold Label trading practice takes pain in distancing itself from these 2 infringements by :
1. Having all transactions by way of cheques or bank drafts and cash transactions are not accepted;
2. Handing over the physical gold bought by the customers for every transaction which makes the transaction a part of trading practice.
There are hundreds of companies practising similar models of business with variations and some of these variations may be bordering on infringement of these 2 Acts. But Lo & behold BNM is not interested or did everybody fall in line after the BNM raind on TGL? Only time will tell. Let us see how the BNM contract to print plastic bank notes unfold to get a glimpse of the inner working of BNM.
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if you want to invest in gold, buy physical gold. period
dont get into those buy gold and get paid monthly concept, where the company will pay you dividen every month.
thats surely a scam.
buy gold directly from gold dealers, goldsmiths, banks and pawn shops.
i am a Public Gold dealer in Johor (Agent code A0681) and work in bugis, Singapore.
if you want to buy physical gold (Public Gold) , do contact me at publicgoldsingapore@gmail.com for more info.
for up to date gold prices, refer to
http://www.publicgold.com.my/
regards,
aiman
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Just want to ask one question, any one of you tried it? Any one of them took your money and ran away? Hope any one of you could help to answer.
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Dear CT,
Gold trading is an un-regulated business and The Gold Label does not deserve the Bank Negara Malaysia (BNM) intervention as the 2 excuses for the intervention viz money laundering and deposit taking had been scupulously avoided by TGL at the time of the raid.
To answer your question – Yes, there are companies which take your money and run away. But those are the fly by night companies and they have given a bad name to the gold trading business. So, to protect yourself always hold on to physical gold. That way, your maximum loss is around 20-30% and in the long term you stand to gain from the rebates.
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CT Reply:
August 23rd, 2010 at 10:08 am
Fair statement. Thank you.
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If Samudra-GV’s scheme is not a ponzi scheme, or a scam, i must be convinced of the following:
1) Why is it not doing any advertisements and promotion of their scheme?
2) Anyone try to examine the purity of the gold before at other goldsmiths?
3) The website illustrate them as a goldsmith without the information of their investment schemes, why not putting it in the website instead on the interest payable?
If the gold examined by anyone here proven it as 999 Gold, i will be more convinced as we know that fake golds are running wild in the market.
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Victor Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
Tan,
Do you have pawn shop or jewelery shop in your hometown/state? Just bring the gold from TGL to them. Say you want to sell back to them and ask for the value of the Gold. How much these shops sell and how much these shops will buy back.
If the Gold is fake, these jewelery/pawn shop people will also tell you.
Simple as that. They handle Gold day in day out and will certainly know whether the Gold is real or fake.
I have tried checking it before. Don’t just listen to me. Try it out yourself!
Every company has its own way of marketing their products. No adverts or promotion does NOT mean that its a scam.
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Fact Finding:
a) Such companies are registered as jewelery instead of an investment company;
b) Uses discount workmanship or rebate as their term of giving interest because the voucher cannot state interest term as it violates the BNM rule.
c) Gold in this scheme is 20% higher price than the normal price.
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Victor Reply:
August 23rd, 2010 at 5:10 pm
What is your point/reason/objective of your fact finding a,b,c?
Every company market their products differently. You have a choice to do biz with the company that you think give you the best option (ie in your own assessment).
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Dear Tan,
1. Your are right, The Gold Label , Samudra GV and similar Companies are Goldsmiths and Jewellers and their business is buying and selling gold and jewelry. They are definitely not investment companies and nowhere do they claim to be investment companies. A customer goes to them to buy gold. Whether it is as an investment, the seller company doesn’t want to know. Just like when a customer goes to a hardware shop to buy an axe. The shop doesn’t know, nor does it want to know, what the customer does with the axe, be it as a wood cutting tool or a tool for a robbery;
2. The rebate given is just like any rebate given for purchase based on the willing buyer/willing seller principle and it not intended as interest regardless of whatever BNM rule applicable or otherwise;
3. Regarding the 20% profit, please see my posting in genneva gold, which is also applicable to The Gold Label.
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Hey guys! There is so much scammish talk on this firm…
Anyone been to their office? How is it? And what about the staff there? Do they seem reliable?
Thanks for enlightening!
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Dear Patek,
The Gold Label is one of the more professional goldsmith shops doing business using this model and the customer has to make his purchase through the Company’s agents who are your introducers. The staff are just performing their function as in any other goldsmith shop. Well, if you were to buy and receive physical gold, is there any difference with other goldsmith shop? Yes, the difference is that The Gold Label gives you a rebate? If you are comfortable with the possibility of losing an amount equivalent to the profit The Gold Label make from the sale of the Gold, then buy by all means and if the Company goes belly up tha moment you walk out of the shop, that is the amount of your loss. Scam or not, reliable or not depends on your level of tolerance.
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