Sep 30 2009
The Gold Label
The Gold Label is another company in Malaysia that operates with a similar model to Genneva Gold. They sell you gold at a discount to the listed price and offer a guaranteed buyback at the listed price after the end of a specified period of time.
I don’t have the exact details of the terms but I would caution anyone from joining such “guaranteed buyback” schemes. I will post more details of the Gold Label scheme once I have it.
My earlier post on Genneva Gold has already attracted close to 500 comments; you can refer to it to read some of the arguments for and against such schemes. Some of these comments would be applicable to The Gold Label as well.
Remember the shills posting comments in the Stoic thread?
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let’s keep an open mind.
anyone with more details please post here for public awareness.
contrary to what the agents say, i believe most of us here are interested in debating the pros and cons of each opportunity. We don’t derive pleasure in bashing all opportunities. It’s just all the recent opportunities smell really bad.
just remember.. anything too good to be true often is.
Cheers,
Intheknow
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Bias Reply:
October 10th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
When you make comments on Genneva, your choice of words is so strong and most of your comments drives that it is probably a scam.
When it comes to “The Gold Label”, which is a newer company, but however has the same concept as Genneva, your comment starts “let’s keep an open mind”.
I wonder what makes you say that?
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Rich Reply:
October 31st, 2009 at 1:43 am
I also felt the same too about IntheKnow?
Also 2%, may be kawan-kawan
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Do they advertise on TV on premium cable channels?
Some people (maybe shills, maybe not) love to claim that if there’s an ad on reputable tv channel, it must be real. Otherwise, the tv producers will not air it.
Strangely enough, when I google some of those product names, the 1st page of Google screams “SCAM SCAM SCAM” all over.
Why would a product being advertised on ESPN scream SCAM all over Google?
Food for thought.
For the neutrals reading this, it’s all about the money. That’s also the same reason why the 3 local telcos don’t do much about misleading/fraudulent ringtone & wallpaper charges. They earn a transaction fee out of it!
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I believe if you buy gold with a local bank and keep the gold with them for safe keeping, you need to pay interest.
It is possible that this company is using investor’s as a cheaper source money instead of a bank loan, like Stanford who sold CDs and use the money to invest.
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Wah. . . .Why is Genneva so much more “popular” than The Gold Label?
So much comments there but so quiet here. Haha.
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I heard The Gold Label is also facing problems. They cannot fulfill their promises to investors due to their competitors recent saga and currently only open door to investors that “understand” them. They did not open their door for operation for few weeks already. Can anyone please verify this.
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Genneva, Gold Label, Samudra, blah blah – all them con artists ponzi schemes.
Again, i urge agents of such companies to go get proper day jobs. even a road sweeper has much more respect than these muppets.
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goofy, what do you invest in?
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Dear Jonathan,
The Kingdom of Heaven is near. Invest in guiding people away from greed which may result in their downfall.
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Mentioned above “The Gold Label is another company in Malaysia that operates with a similar model to Genneva Gold. They sell you gold at a discount to the listed price and offer a guaranteed buyback at the listed price after the end of a specified period of time.”
And wow, i am really impressed, with more than 500 posts on GV in just month, but here, its like quiet town… ..
I do agree to Bias and Rich, its seems that, the comment by InTheKnow starts with “let’s keep an open mind.”, wow. You have nearly more than 100 comments over GV, maybe its true that you have no idea of this TGL, or could be .. ..
And what happen to those know-a-lot commentator? How come here not much comments, even they are having the same business nature with GV?
Just a curious thought, 2.5%, is the TGL closed the door and just allowed understand customer in?
All the best.
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2.5% Reply:
November 3rd, 2009 at 11:17 am
Hi James Siew,
This is what I heard about TGL. But I am curious why the nobody can help me to verify it here promptly like Genneva-gold forum? Maybe I should post it over the other forum to get an answer.
# 2.5%on 29 Oct 2009 at 2:07 pm
I heard The Gold Label is also facing problems. They cannot fulfill their promises to investors due to their competitors recent saga and currently only open door to investors that “understand” them. They did not open their door for operation for few weeks already. Can anyone please verify this.
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Lady Reply:
November 3rd, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Maybe it is because it is malicious rumours spread by vindictive people?
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suisse Reply:
December 27th, 2009 at 2:43 am
TGL still running in malaysia
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Lady Reply:
November 3rd, 2009 at 11:22 pm
Hi James Siew,
The Gold Label is open to anyone who is interested. I think the rumours started after GV got raided.
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Rich Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 12:27 am
Hi Lady,
You are very sure about TGL.
Are you investor or agent?
You represent Malaysia or Singapore?
What are the interest per month?
What type of gold they are distributing? Physical or Paper Gold?
Thank You
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Lady Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
I’m an agent and I represent Malaysia.
The Gold Label does not give interest. They give rebate of 2.5% not on per month basis but per transaction.
The gold they are distributing is PAMP gold bars with certificate which actually belongs to the customer. As it belongs to the customer, the customer keeps the physical gold.
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Rich Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
great, so what is the contract period?
30days? 90days?
any guarantee buy back price at 100% of my principle?
where is the office in singapore?
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Spy^Der Reply:
November 5th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Dear Lady,
Wow u really know your stuffs
Yes, a physical gold of 999.9 in hand. PAMP certified original certificate and an original invoice. Total amount you invest is how much the piece of gold is worth. I felt it, held it and ahem..
You can bring it to the essayer to test the purity of the gold or any gold smith shop.
Lady, is right. U get to keep the physical gold and original gold certificate by PAMP.
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jimmy fong Reply:
December 8th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
lady i like to ask can i be the agent of TGL
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hmm. the first sentence i see at the website is:
“Gold is posibbly one of the best hedges against inflation”
need i say more about the quality of this company?
cheers,
intheknow
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Rich Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
so who are you?
agent of the gold label too?
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The Gold Label is opening in Singapore.
S’pore is strict about this kind of invesment company and they got a green light to operate its business there.
Any idea if is it still a scam?
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Intheknow Reply:
November 5th, 2009 at 11:08 am
1. has it opened?
2. green light to operate as WHAT SORT OF COMPANY? investment company regulated by MAS? or a dodgy import/export company?
3. typo on the website shows the ‘high’ quality of the company.
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Jonathan Reply:
November 5th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
Hi intheknow,
What kind of license a company need, if they were to operate in singapore for gold business?
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As for The Gold Label,
I am more concerned who are the shareholders & directors of the company? Trustworthy or fly by night?
Accounts – real or doctored?
What ever, even a listed company can go bankrupt even it is approved by MAS.
Heard that they also do paper gold in Malaysia.
Just a concern, be careful !
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Jonathan Reply:
November 5th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
heard that they have similar model as GV. This sound scary
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Lady Reply:
November 6th, 2009 at 1:03 am
Its a different model of GV and they are still fine tuning the model to ensure that it is as compliant as possible.
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Rich Reply:
November 6th, 2009 at 1:27 am
FYI, I had just bought 10kg from GV Singapore, they give me real physical gold.
How can it be the same?
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Intheknow Reply:
November 6th, 2009 at 11:49 am
good luck to you Rich.
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smarty Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
I was looking through the online forum that you were on about gold investment and you seemed interested in knowing more about it. I’m wondering if whether you have already started investing in them. Do let me know? Really curious how is it happening for you with the investments.
Sorry if i have not introduced myself. You can call me smarty. Am currently an agent working in spore.
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both goldlabel and genneva also give physical gold what…it is the same…just that gold label with certificate
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Alfredo, there is a difference on the type of gold and the cert. I was ignorant of that as well until I started assisting people who wanted to sell off Genneva gold. It seems that PAMP + cert can fetch a higher value as compared to GV gold.
So if comparing GV gold & PAMP with cert at the same price, I’d rather keep PAMP as I can sell it for a better price in case something happens.
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wholesaler Reply:
November 6th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
of course, you are right. GV bars will fetch a slightly lower price.
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Alfredo Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 1:44 am
thanks for the explanation. but then how to know whether the certificate is genuine or not?
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I am quite disturbed/ pissed when I aware that GV markup 20% of the gold price. Since TGL is slightly different from GV, can any agent from TGL tell me what is the price you selling your gold compare to GV? Thank you in advance.
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Lady Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 1:02 am
GV merely follows the price stated in FGJAM which most goldsmith shops are using so there is nothing to be pissed about.
The price that TGL is selling is also as per FGJAM.
In the 1st place why should you be pissed about the price? You want to enjoy the monthly 2%/2.5% rebate and also the buy back guarantee so you have to pay the price.
Besides, the company needs to make money to give you those benefits and continue operation.
If you are interested in gold trading you can try buying gold from public gold or banks. They sell you at a much cheaper price. However, you will be exposed to gold price fluctuations and there will be no rebates.
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Gold Lover Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 1:48 am
Mind to share how tgl difference from Gv? is it buy back guarantee LEGAL in malaysia? how about in Singapore?. Did the Buy back is at original purchase price? stated in invoice? please advice.
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Lady Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
The term buy back guarantee is legal in Malaysia. Just depends on who uses it.
The difference between GV and TGL is:
- TGL is giving rebates per transaction
- There will be a custodian purchaser who will buy at the original purchase price stated in the invoice.
If I’m not mistaken, the 3 months period with monthly rebates is actually ok in Singapore but not in Malaysia. Not very sure about that.
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dm Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
TGL is giving rebates pper transaction same as GV what’s the difference?
Nee d to clarify
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Gold Lover Reply:
November 8th, 2009 at 1:02 am
dear lady,
How is the custodian purchaser relates to TGL and why they want to buy it at original purchase price for TGL clients? How they make money then???
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Dear Gold Lover,
The Custodian is just like after the BNM raid on Genneva when Genneva does not want to honour its pledge on the Buy Back Guarantee (BBG) and informed their customers through their agents that there is a “Custodian” ABC Company which is willing to buy back the gold at 20% or 80% of Genneva’s selling price. Therefore at one swoop, the Seller do away with the BBG and at the same time circumvent the authorities’ scrutiny. The agents and the gold trading companies are not going to tell you because the only way they can conduct this kind of business is to use subterguge and without transparency. Have you seen any of the gold trading companies such as The Gold Label or Samudra coming out with any transparency on their business model?
Genneva is the Custodian for Samudra and TGL is “makan sendiri”.
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Alfredo Reply:
November 9th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
yo bro, do you think the business model for company like TGL and GV sustainable?
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Jeffrey,
You are absolutely right. they have not shown their business model in the most transparent way possible. They did show partially, when investor probe further they will say “Well, this is it. Have you see any company show 100% of their business model” then investor got no choice but to agree with their simplified model that any moron can comes out with. Just with some mathematical trick and magic figures. In another words, this tow companies are same same only.
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Gold Lover,
The reason why no company will show you their business model is because the capital to start off is very little only. You only need a few millions to start the company. So naturally companies would not want to show their whole business model to create more competitions in the market.
Therefore the only way is to show a rough idea on how the company makes money.
Anyways, when customers buy the gold they have to know clearly the risk of coming in.
If these companies are a scam or they get raided by BNM, the risk is 20% off their capital for those who force sell. This does not include the monthly 2.5% they have been receiving. When you come into these trading, you should put aside the guarantee part and expect that much of loss.
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dear lady,
mind sharing the business model of TGL over here? at least TGL is more transparent than GV.
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Dear Alfredo,
The Lady has very kindly told us that when you invest in TGL and Genneva/Samudra you have to be prepared to lose the 20% less whatever rebates you have got. Coming from an Agent of TGL, this speaks volumes on the sustainability. The other valuable piece of information given by the LADY is that all these companies starts with small capital of “a few millions”. Whether it is sustainable or not will depend on whether the companies can make the 300% per annum to paid your “rebates”. Hello friend, if you are making 300%
profit per annum, do you want to involve in such thankless business? You may just borrow from the bank or roll your credit card and your “few millions” will turn into “few hundreds of millions.
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Lady Reply:
November 9th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
300% per annum? Where did you get that figure? Which company claims to make 300% per annum? O.o
What does that have to do with sustainability?
Let’s take a look at unit trust. You have a possibility of losing 100% or making 100% or more. That’s high risk.
What does a 20% risk have to do with the sustainability of a company?
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Sure but mind you, i’m just sharing what we’re told and through my own experience.
Let’s look at most of the program out there that offers buys backs of their own gold at purchase price.
We all know how trading works. Buy cheap sell high. Most gold companies will probably get it slightly lower than banks price maybe around RM120/g.
They sell it at RM142/g making a profit of RM22/g. Now in any business no company is going to keep the RM22/g. They will use it to buy more gold. They will keep the gold and most probably sell it when they make a certain % (that’s their trade secret that I don’t know exactly)
From my own understanding, the gold company makes more $$$ when the gold price goes up and if it drops below their cost they make temporary losses. So within a month they may have 2-3times turnover or more depending on the gold price. In 30days, they should be able to make enough to cover the 2.5% and a little bit more AND also provide a buy-back to clients.
At the end of the day somebody has to take the risk and in this case, its the company and if the company cannot not take the risk, the customer bears the 20% risk. ^.^ Hence, it is also important for buyers to hold hallmarked gold with cert as it fetches a slightly better price if you know where to look.
However from my own personal physical gold trading, I can make about 6% a month. So I don’t see why a company with a huge capital is not able to generate enough profit to sustain their business.
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Alfredo Reply:
November 9th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
Hi Lady,
Thanks for your explanation on the business model of TGL. I love especially when you mentioned that you re making 6% monthly from your personal trading. Thats cool. Are you trading on physical gold or gold ETF to earned that 6%? I would love to do something on my own to get that return. please advice. I believe that you wont come back and tell me that “It is your trade secret”? haha just joking. Just about sharing so that everyone can profit from the uptrend of gold. Thanks you in advance.
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kw Reply:
November 18th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Dear Lady,
I am quite interested to invest, can you email me your info to kennywongkw@gmail.com or 0123713997
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Dear Lady,
Your are really charming and informative and more than what I can say of other agents who hide behind an iron curtain.
1. Profit for TGL, Genneva/Samudra
I cannot say about the figures for TGL but for current Samudra model let us assume that the Company makes 20% on the gold that they are selling.
The payments the Company has to make are as follows :
1.1 Rebate at 2.5%;
1.2 Agent/agency at 1.3%;
1.3 Administration and overhead costs at 1.2%
The total is 5% per month on the investors sum or annualised at 60% (5% x 12 months = 60%)
Since the profit which the Company can use to roll is only 20% of the invested sum, therefore the Company has to make 60 x 100/20
or 300%.
Therefore I cannot understand how with 20%, even assuming the Company can roll over 3 times a month it cannot amount to many times the invested sum and the assumption that the Company has only to pay the rebate is flawed. How about agency fees (your income oh and overhead)
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Jonathan Reply:
November 9th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
jeff, you re very analytical and informative. When a person invest, yes the profit margin is 20%. But that doesnt mean that company can just roll using the 20% coz the whole sum of investment is with the company say for one full month. That is assuming if client were to withdraw after one month. But in actual fact, i believe that majority of clients will keep renewing, thus company will keep generating the income using the whole big sum invested. Now why client keep renewing? Knowing that risk is 20%, assuming monthly rebate is 2.5%, they will invest free of risk after 8 months.
Anyhow, 8 months is a period of time whereby most people are comfortable with i suppose. Because anyhow, when we talk about investing in physical gold, it is all about holding power. Company like TGL,SGV or even GV selling at markup price of 20%, that is perfectly fine VS the chances of getting rebate of 2.5% that your risk are lowered every month. Even if the company screw up, it just back to square one, and a little longer to recoup losses. And that is also if someone desperately need to get rid of the gold.
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I agree with Intheknow comment dated on 13 Nov 09 in next forum and of course yours, 2%. In conclusion, GV, Samudra and The Gold Label are the same? Right? Just have to keep your eyes open………. on your investment.
2%: So can conclude all are con-pany since they work similarly? I already put in money with The Gold Label because I thought new company will not fold up easily. I have to re-value it again since all belong to the same category.
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Company claim that they had 8 ways of trade secret to make those kind of money to pay for around 6% total payout monthly. (2.5% rebate+1.3% agent commission+ 1% operating + 1.2% insurance). i have no idea whether they really had it all 8 ways. however, i myself try so hard to understand all of it, and how actually company make those kind of money to sustain. i search for so long time and put so many efford. search information both secondary and primary. getting wide network both local (private & goverment) and foreign ( private finance company, instututions and banks) Finally, i got 4 ways to really make enough money to pay such 6% monthly. more than enough to pay it 6% and make extra money for company profit. very easy and logical way. i guaratee 100% workable. 2 of the trade secret are actually quite similar that company simplified version that reveal in their presentation. most ppl don’t beleive the simple way that company person incharge that always keep telling in presentation. However, its was real but too simplify. people only see how the process work but don’t know how it actually work and where to get those resources that mention in the process. Thanks to my both foreign and local partners, now i knew everything about all these GV,BGH,PGH,TGL and many more companies what they actually doing. Sorry friends, of coz i am not going to reveal the secrets in here. for who really want to know. please drop me an email with ur personal detail and contact number. i will contact u and inform u the charges. tell u in upfront, i charge millions. i don’t interested to start the same business, thats why i juz sell off the secret. For those affortable and interested to make really good profit. please drop an email to me. U will no regret after know how it actually works. i don’t take ur money up front, after u know the method. u sure will pay me the money. thanks bro
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Dear Secret,
Wow, your have cracked the puzzle but not interested to go into this lucretive business. What a waste of your genius talents or is your research leading you to the conclusion that involving yourself in such business will lead to your joining the huge group of Malaysian “economic exiles”. Anyway, it will be interesting if you will contact me at arieswyewye2010@yahoo.com and share some of your insight.
Thank you & best regards,
Jeffrey Lim
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Can someone tell me if the gold label has started their operations in Singapore?
1) Is it 2% or 2.5% in singapore
2) interested to become the agent, any idea what is their com structure?
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Lady Reply:
December 10th, 2009 at 12:11 am
1) it is 2% for Singapore due to GST.
2) Yes I know how the comm structure works. Do you have an email or hp no so that i can contact you? thx.
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ZM Reply:
December 11th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
ZM,
Can contact me too? Thank you.
Email: zmqwe71@yahoo.com
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curios Reply:
December 13th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Thanks. my email address : exitscene@gmail
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Daydreamer Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
Hi Lady
Could you e-mail me the details? nixnahnat@gmail.com
I’m interested to be an agent as well as an investor. Thanks.
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KI Reply:
March 1st, 2010 at 12:04 pm
hi,
pls contact me on anushka.ogale@gmail.com. thanks
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Hi Everyone,
Just went for the gold label presentation and found out that
they are giving rebates of:
2.5%+2% for 90 days investment = 4.5%
2.5%+2.5% for 180 days investment = 5.5%
I am very worry now, I am not sure about all of you out there.
At least Genneva is more realistic.
I think our friends, 2% & 2.5% will be even more nervous about The Gold Label.
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Penangites Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Hi curios,
if you don’t mind, could you share with me where you attended the presentation. This is not the plan implemented by The Gold Label so far in malaysia.
Are you from Singapore?
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Dear curios,
After paying for your gold, how long does it take for TGL to deliver the gold to your possession?
TQ
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curios Reply:
December 16th, 2009 at 1:24 am
Sorry, I only saw the slides which was presented to me & my friends by the agent.
It is a 90days programe.
2.5% rebate on Day 1
2% rebate on Day 30
2.5% rebate on Day 31
2% rebate on Day 60
2.5% rebate on Day 61
2% rebate on Day 90
I think only the LADY agent could explain, I think it is too good to be true!!!
I am out definitely.
Not sure if there’s any delivery of physical gold,
if it is 4.5% p.mth, it must be paper.
Thank you
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Penangites Reply:
December 16th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Hi Curios,
From what I know, everything you listed there is correct but the additional 2% for Day30, 60 and 90 will not be true.
I think you might get interpreted wrongly. You should confirm this with the agent.
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Depends on the time of closing. If the closing of the transaction, meaning the agent completes everything and submits it to office before 1pm, you should be able to collect the physical gold 2 days from the submission. Which is the 3rd day.
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how did this get so many responses? This is very suspicious.
Even those Pinnacle Notes and High Notes issues didn’t get sooo many responses.
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Hi
Can anyone adivise, if i need to know more about this. Am i able to walk in their office to have more detail?
Blue.
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met an agent from TGL and really quite different model that i heard.
- purchase gold @ FGJAM price, immediate 3% discount off the total amount.
- but need to add a 7% GST (Singapore).
- i.e Retail price – 3% + 7%
- The minute money is cleared (you pay by cheque), the gold can be collected at their office (PAMP gold)
- 3 months later, the first payout of 3% of the purchased gold price will be in your bank account. (i.e your retail price x 3%)
- then another 3 months later, they payout another 3% to your account. (i.e your retail price x 3%)
- at this point, you can excercise your option to purchase the gold back at the price you paid for. They will also give back the 7% GST as a “bonus” (i.e your retail price + 7%)
All in all, your profit will be about 9% for half a year.
This sounds too good to be true, but it’s a formula that has my friends talking and some of them has already signed up for it.
I’m tempted. Wouldn’t you?
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curios Reply:
December 21st, 2009 at 12:58 am
9%,
I wouldn’t for sure.
Why go for 9% for half year when you can have 2% per month elsewhere and excercise your option every 30 days.
Do yourself a favor, do a search of the company & directors?
1) Where do they come from?
2) What are their previous background?
3) What are their paid-up capital?
4) Are they regulated by MAS?
As long as you know your risk, they rest ….
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anyone who is interested in participating in this programme as an investor, let me know how I can reach you.
thanks
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TGL issuing real physical gold with cert,. still….. i got this feeling that somehow this is a scam. anyone got more info on this. not much info found regarding on this…any1 got links to more info for TGL? tks
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I would like to share a possible business model adopted by TGL:
RM /gm
FGJAM Price of Gold 150.00
Gold Spot Price 125.00
Gross Margin 16.7% 25.00
Rebates 2.5% 3.75
Agent’s Com. 0.7% 1.05
Admin. O/hd 10.0% 15.00
Financial costs 2.5% 3.75
Total Expenses 15.7% 23.55
Profit 1.0% 1.45
Why cant you make profit from this operation?
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lioninvestor Reply:
December 24th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Hi Atuk,
Reason is after the company makes the buyback, the entire gross margin disappears.
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It is imperative that you to manage your cashflow..
You start up with initial working capital to buy your initial stock of gold.
Your subsequent sale proceeds are used for trading (buying and selling) in gold , with liquidity always in mind. It depends on how good you are at this trade to ensure profitability. Very much like the operation of unit trusts or other investement portfolio managers.
If there is a run-in where everybody sells, even a bank can close down.
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WHY so many words?
Just SHOW the FACES of The Gold Label Management and Key Executives….
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This is a grey colour company,it will operate 5-8years(max),when global eco run well,they will limit buyers or stop operate.
IF you got some money(please dont borrow money),trough into this company buy some gold,keep rolling for two year you will get upto 130%-135% return.
For those (too good to be true)worst senario is you purchase today the company go down tomorrow,you still have the gold bar with cer,sell now you will lose around 20-30%or you can wait for few years,sell the gold when the gold price is hi enough to cover back your lose.
Buy now after 8 month you are risk free and earn some extra money.
Im not agent even I sound like
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Hi suisse,
I agree with you.
Let us drop aside the element of investment.
It is simply the purchase of a gold bullion with rebates.
Simply put, you’re buying a standard gold bar on discount that will be spreaded out over a period of 6 months.
Wherever you go to purchase your gold bullions at retail price, you will not be getting any discounts. which equates to an immediate lost upon purchase with no option of resell untill such times that gold prices raise futher.
The sell back option is just a bonus.
Depending on how you would view the current market climate. Should gold continue it’s bull run, owners can choose not to sell back the gold and keep it.
In the event that gold should take a dip, owners can still exercise the sell back option(if it’s still available) and re-enter the market again at a lower capital.
From the view point of an investor,
Physical gold should form a part of a properly diversified portfolio. Gold remains a universal finite currency, held by every central bank of note in the world.
All the other principal investment classes of the world depend on the solvency of another organisation bound up in the financial system. Gold does not. It is the quality hedge against the commonest personal financial disaster, in terms of numbers of people ruined. It is a hedge against a failure of the financial system itself.
With regards to queries about The Gold Label Pte Ltd, it is a registered company with it’s business model submitted to MAS.
From my personal view point, i would be more concerned about the genuity of the gold bullion itself then other factors. Afterall, i’m putting my money into the gold bullion.
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Whats the fuss about Samudara or TGL. It is another investment arm and depend on your investment appetiate. As with all investment there are risk to it. Share can hit you, bond can default, unit trust can collapse, bank can close (179 banks in US), companies can go burst. Just ask yourself, if you can sleep peacefully at night with where you put your money then just do it. As for the trade secret of how companies make money I don’t think any company will expose it to the public. Even high profile companies. ever heard of creative accounting? Whatever it is go back to basic. Is it safe, will I get the return I set for and if anything happens what am I left with?
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Dear SMI,
Rightly said except for the “investment” part. Gold trading is a trading activity of buy and sell. However, with your innovative gold traders such as TGL or Samudra GV, you can have your cake and eat it. In most trading companies, the trader sells and makes his profit/loss. End of story. However, here when you buy gold, you get an implicit buy back guarantee and a rebate ad infinitum which means the gold trader not only sells you the gold but when you buys his gold and keep rolling it over, the trader keeps working for him by giving him the monthly rebate. Here Santa Claus comes every month and gives the purchaser his rebate for the month in advance. The gold trader keeps the economy alive by generating the rebates for the purchaser, by paying the agents their fees, by
creating employment opportunities and giving opportunities to the masses to sell their jewelleries to be re-worked into gold bars/coins. If only the world have more of these citizens who can qualify for the Nobel Prize for contributions to humanity. They should be allowed to serve humanity instead of being incalcerated as in the case of Madoff. Think of the people they had helped in the past who had built up the pyramid and benefited from their labour instead of labouring about the consequences when the pyramid crumbles. Remember, you still hold the bricks. Bad luck if your brick is “parked in” or your “roll over is still being processed and you don’t even manage to get a brick”.
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Hi,
If The Gold Label are able to come out a term contract for few years (3-5 years) of continuation rebate at 2.5% or more please do let me know. Aside form this, if i were to buy physical gold,
(1)Which one is better, UOB Malaysia or Bank Negara Malaysia in term of pricing?
(2) Can they accommodate for 50kg or less?
(3)Will I get discount if I buy in bulk?
Anyone who can advice me on this please do so or can come out with a better suggestion. I am still learning and trying to gain as much knowledge as possible about investing in gold.
regards,
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wholesaler Reply:
January 7th, 2010 at 10:32 pm
Hi quart
To help you with your questions:
1) UOB Malaysia is a small player in Malaysia. You may want to check with other bigger bullion dealers for better pricing.
2) I am sure they will sell you any amount.
3) I can sell you at good price if you are keen to buy physical gold.
Pls sms or call me at +6013 351 5608.
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Dear Quart,
The internationally recognized gold is PAMP Gold and they are many gold bullion traders who sells PAMP Gold. If you are investing in gold for appreciational purposes and wait for the price of gold to go up before cashing it then the best bet it PAMP Gold, but please exercise caution as there are already some reports of fake gold on the market. However, if you are investing to enjoy the rebate, TGL is not known as of today to give any term contract but only their payment voucher where their standard terms and conditions are stipulated. Anyway, whether there is or isn’t any contract does not make any difference. More important is the health of the Company and their ability to fulfil what they promised you implicitely or explicitely. If you care to contact me at arieswyewye2010@yahoo.com we can arrange to meet and I can provide you with more information on gold trading which will give you the options available and the risks involved
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SB Reply:
January 8th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
Jeffrey, I am interested to learn from you on gold trading. Do you mind me asking if I have to pay you any form of commission for your advice ?
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Dear SB,
Thank you for your interested. I do not charge any fee. Please feel free to contact me.
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To;
Wholesaler & Jefferey Lim
Thank you for your reply and explanation. I really appreciate it.Yes,the purpose I’m investing in gold is for it to appreciate and I am looking less than 50kg. I have approached UOB and waiting for them to get back to me on the availability of stock this Monday. On the other hand, I would like to explore and see what others have to offer. I need to know if the big players are recognize by at least Malaysian government. After consulting few people, I personally feel that buying from bank is safer yet I will still keep my option open. Regarding the TGL , I’m still considering it because I really think the risk is worth to take since we can keep the physical gold.
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Ling Reply:
January 10th, 2010 at 6:15 pm
Quart,
I am a Manager with TGL in KL. If you have any queries, please feel free to call me at 016-2781775. We will have some changes to our contract period very soon. Ling
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quart Reply:
January 12th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
Hi Ling,
Thank you for responding. I would appreciate it if I could have your email as well.
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Ling Reply:
January 12th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Quart,
You can reach me on ryan846@gmail.com. I check my email daily. Rgds, Ling
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Lets hypotheticaly assume that TGL has 100kg of gold bar sold to 100 investors and there’s no additional investors or increase in gold holdings over a period of 12 mths.
Every mth, the same 100 investors return to sell back to TGL the 100kg of gold bars and enjoy 2% rebate and renew anagin at prevailing price for another mth.
This cycle is repeated for 12 mths at which all investors return the 100kg of gold bar back to TGL.
TGL would have back their original 100kg of gold bars and the investors would have make 24% profit (base on simple interest of 2%/mth).
Not factoring in the commission payout to agents and TGL’s overheads, where on earth did the money come from to pay the investors that 24% rebate?
It just doesn’t add up.
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SMI Reply:
January 23rd, 2010 at 10:12 am
We have to look at the econonic principle of money flow i.e every dollar in a bank will able the banks to lend 10 times to generate further borrwings and made money out of it. With returns the banks generate they declare 2% or 2.35% a year to the investor. What happen to the 100% or more made for every deposit you put in, do they share it with you. Banks are declaring RM billion in profit every year but giving out a mearge 2 to 2.5% to customers. Are we concern how they make their money or even request them to pay or share mor of the profits with us? If we are not willing to take any risk keep in the bank full stop. High risk high returns, don’t want risk but wants high returns, where to invest? I would be very interested to put my money, not much but can lah.
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fact,
Let’s assume the following business model:
(per 100gm)
FGJAM Price of Gold 150.00
Gold Spot Price 125.00
Gross Margin 16.7% 25.00
Rebates 2.5% 3.75
Agent’s Com. 0.7% 1.05
Financial costs 2.5% 3.75
Total Expenses 5.7% 8.55
Gross Profit 11.0% 16.45
bef. Admin. exps. ( i.e. fixed cost)
For 100kg of gold to 100 investors, TGL would have received cash of RM15m and profit upfront of RM1.65m.
Assuming no other business, every month for 12 months TGL would have to pay rebate of 2.5% to 100 investors of RM4.5m. (RM15m X 2.5% X 12).
Thus, incurring a shortfall of RM2.86m (RM1.65m – RM4.5m).
However, bear in mind that TGL has the use of RM15m for 12 months, collected upfront.
TGL needs to get a return of at least 20%pa on the RM15m collected to cover the above shortfall.
The question is ….. can TGL do it?
I think with some fine tuning TGL may have a viable business there.
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fact Reply:
January 13th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
TGL receives 15m cash which they need to return back to the investors the full amount PLUS another 24% interest.
It doesn;t matter whether they have a margin over Gold spot price becuase the BUy Back guarantee is at the invoiced price. So even if they mark it up by 100% on the invoice price, they have to buy back at that mark up price when the investors return the gold bar to them.
In effect, the way I look at it, they are borrowing money from the investors and using the gold bar as a collateral, paying investors 24% pa as interest effectively.
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Dear SMI,
Pls contact me by e-mail : arieswyewye2010@yahoo.com and we can communicate further.
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Anyone heard of the Sunshine empire? The super return by the company. Now under CAD. What make me sad is most of the people who lost in this investment is friend or relative who is the agent, what can these people do. they can’t sue the agent cause of the bloodline or friendship. but you also cannot blame the agent, they were mislead into believe in the easy $$$ and the huge commission and reward like brand new BMW. .. I personally believe TGL is going to be under it someday give it a yr or 2.
hopefully the CAD can look into this asap.. dun wan too many people to lose their hard earn $$$ through this.
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You may be well aware what TGL does is basically to buy gold from UOB at spot price (which you too can get the same spot price from UOB) and sell it to investors at > 20% above market value.
In other words, it simply means that you’re giving TGL the 20% or higher mark-up as unsecured loan (the other 80% is secured by the gold you hold). Why would you want to give someone like TGL an unsecured loan? Oh… because they promised to pay you interests of 2% per month, or 24% p.a. Btw, they word it as “rebate” instead of interest just so as not to run foul of the laws, but they’re the same in this scenario.
Besides paying investors 24%p.a, their commission structure is such that they pay their agents a total of another 1.3% PER MONTH (for every month the investors stay with the company), or 15.6% p.a. That’s a total of 39.6% p.a. and we still have not include their rental, labor, and other overheads.
Can TGL generate that kind of profits to substantiate such high cost of payment to investors? I believe the fair question to ask is: WHO and WHAT KIND of people are running the business to make such huge profits possible?
From my understanding, the company’s partners and most of the people running the show are ex-salesman from a land-banking company called Walton International. I’m not suggesting that they’re incapable, but it certainly raise some red flags.
Let’s be realistic, if professional investment bankers had a hard time delivering that kind of returns (internally and not what they offer retail investors), how much more so can we expect from a bunch of salesman. Yes, salesman can paint you rosy pictures and stories to boot, BUT… I think we should be smart enough to discern the difference.
Hence, it is my belief that this gold investment scheme is simply another ponzi scheme, where money from the later investors is used to pay earlier investors.
Another very important fact which I would like to highlight is… INTEGRITY. TGL keep telling their investors that they’re paying “market rate” for their gold because that’s the prices gold-smith shops charges their customers for jewelleries. But the truth of the matter is that, the REAL market price is the price you get directly from UOB. Anybody can buy gold directly from UOB, and that’s the real market rate for bullion gold bars. Comparing bullion gold prices to retail jewellery price actually amounts to lying and misleading. I believe investors can and should have legal recourse over here.
Warren Buffert once said something to this extend “if you want to know how great a company is, just look at its people”. I believe those are very wise words.
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I invested with TGL in Dec 2009. I am holding the gold now, got cert or not, i can’t recall… need to go back to check tonight.
I trust it as it was explained to me in such a manner that quite make sense…
some key words:
commodity
security
storage
pass title in 3 – 6mths time
I guess u ppl are smart enough to piece it together.
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fact Reply:
January 28th, 2010 at 10:50 pm
I suggest you walk into any goldsmith shop or talk to any gold trader and share with them about TGL and see if they can make any sense out of it.
Oh yah, TGL has a proprietary business model that cannot be reveal and how they make their money to pay the investors is top secret. Heard that so many time before that it is not even funny anymore.
Majority of the investors with TGL has no idea they are paying inflated price for the gold as they think that the prices quoted daily by jewellery shop is universally regarded as price of gold bar as well.
I give it maximum 2 years before the whole deck of cards collapse. One sign to watch out is when they start to give higher and higher returns with longer time frame. This is a tell tale sign that they are not getting sufficient new money in to pay the earlier investors and to resolve the issue, they offer more returns for longer period, thus buying them more time to “roll over” the payment to investors.
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Greeting to All,
This is what I understand of TGL Singapore works.
- purchase gold @SJA (Singapore Jewellery Association) price, immediate 3% discount off the total amount.
- but need to add a 7% GST (Singapore).
- i.e Retail price – 3% + 7%
- The minute money is paid (you pay by cheque cleared), the gold can be collected at their office (PAMP or other Intl 999.9 gold)
- 3 months later, the first payout of 3% of the purchased gold price will be in your bank account. (i.e your retail price x 3%)
- then another 3 months later(180 to 187 days from date of purchase), they payout another 3% to your account. (i.e your retail price x 3%)
- at this point, you can exercise your option to purchase the gold back at the price you paid for. They will also give back the 7% GST as a “bonus” (i.e your retail price + 7%)
All in all, your profit will be about 9% for half a year.
The Gold Label Pte Ltd (TGL) is registered in Singapore as a “General and Wholesale Trading Co” and they are not required to be under the purview of Singapore MAS.
As TGL deals with secondhand goods (ie. Buying back gold from their clients), they need to apply to the Singapore Police Force for a Secondhand Goods Dealer License for smooth operations.
TGL also went to the extend of checking with Singapore IRAS to ensure that they comply/meet the IRAS GST compliance.
TGL does not do the sales and marketing themselves. They outsourced to 5 marketing companies. TGL pays a standard 1.3% commission for the outsource service.
As such, their Admin & Operation are very much lower. This is a semi fix cost like less than 10 people to cover accounting, logistic Customer Services and office rental at 6 Battery Road, #17-07/8. The % of this cost will depend on the biz turnover.
I understand from 1 of the 5 marketing company that they managed to sell 174 Kg of 999.9 good delivery Gold bars within 2 weeks. If this is true, TGL will have sold at least 600 Kg of Gold Bars a month thru the 5 marketing companies. If we look at S$62K per Kg of Gold, this works out to be S$37.2 million worth of biz a month. TGL certainly did not start with S$30 million to do this $37.2 million biz. I understand that they started with less than S$1.5 million capital. This is the beauty or secret that many or in fact all the forumers failed to see how TGL biz model work. Many understands that TGL has marked up the price by 20% of wholesaler price (ie about 22% above Gold spot price). I see nothing wrong with this markup. You buy a Rolex, LV, Jaguar, BMW and their mark up is even higher.
The TGL biz model is simply a multiplier effect like 1; 1.2; 1.44; 1.728; 2.073; 2.488; 2.986; 3.583; 4.3; ………………………. Using Other Peoples Money (OPM) to generate the biz to make money. The more times it multiplies the money TGL makes. Just like what the banks do to collect deposit and loan it back the businesses. Of course the banks model is slightly different as they need many branches and more people to man their biz. TGL has only 1 office in Singapore. All sales are handled by their marketing agents.
TGL behaves differently to Genneva as they have 6 monthly cycle verses Genneva’s monthly cycle. Effectively, TGL pay 1.5% monthly verses Genneva’s 2% monthly.
Genneva starts from as minimal as 5 gm upwards whereas TGL minimum is 100gm and upwards and in multiple of 100gm.
In summary, Genneva targets the man in the street (ie small low end customers) whereas TGL target the upper segment gold investors. Genneva’s office in Orchard Towers can be busy/crowded because clients need visit them every month whereas for TGL, clients visit them every 6 months. I understand the wait at Genneva can be up to 4 hours to conduct a transaction.
I hope some of you out there will understand how the TGL biz model work. I know that many will still be not convince. The simple fact is that it works!
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Victor, your long post fail to address the most fundmental issue of the biz model, where did they make their money from?
To simplify matters, regardless of where if the price of gold during the tenure of the investment, the client will always be able to return the gold back to TGL for the original purchase price. The rebates they receive in essence is the “profit” on their investment.
TGL just keep rolling the money over and over again, each cycle paying the rebates as an incentives. As long as the amount of money is coming in form investors if greater than the money returning to investors, they have positive cash flow.
Factoring in the commission they pay out to the marketing firms distributing this for them, they have to make money from somewhere to make all these disbursement.
TGL is nett paying money to investors, paying money to agents, paying money to ops staff, paying money for rental.
Where is the money coming from to pay everyone? They can’t be making money from invetsors right? Since investors all have positive net returns. They can’t be making money from agents right? Since agents get paid for every investor they rope in.
They can be making money form Gold right? Since the money for the gold is eventually return to the investors. What do they do with the gold if gold drops 20% overnight?
Where did they make the money from to pay everyone in the whole food chain?
Can you enligthen me? And please dont give me the reason that it “business secret”. Margin for trading in Precious metal is very thin and very transparent. There’s no secret about it.
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“They can be making money form Gold right? Since the money for the gold is eventually return to the investors. What do they do with the gold if gold drops 20% overnight?”
Correction…typo error. The above para should read:
They CAN’T be making money form Gold right? Since the money for the gold is eventually return to the investors. What do they do with the gold if gold drops 20% overnight?
“TGL just keep rolling the money over and over again, each cycle paying the rebates as an incentives. As long as the amount of money is coming in form investors if greater than the money returning to investors, they have positive cash flow.”
Should read:
TGL just keep rolling the money over and over again, each cycle paying the rebates as an incentives. As long as the amount of money coming in fromm investors IS greater than the money flow returning to investors, they have positive cash flow.
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Victor Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 1:30 am
Dear Fact,
First, I need to clarify that I am not related to TGL and I do not know how they use the money raised from the Gold investors.
My earlier post simply described how TGL raised their funds. They may starts with S$1 million capital but ended up collecting S$40 million within a month. Out of this S$40 million, S$32 million were spent on Gold purchase which were returned physically to the investors.
Minus some expenses, they will have at least S$7 million cash. TGL process is similiar to a bank FD period of 6 months lockup. Investors cannot go TGL to ask for the return of their money until 6 months later. Effectively as many of us understand TGL is paying 1.5% interest/returns per month to the investors. 1.3% per month to the sales and marketing agent.
As TGL could easily collect S$40 mil to S$50 mil from Gold investors, the Mgt/Admin cost is very low. I believe its about 0.5%.
Their total cost is about 3.3% per month(ie 1.5% + 1.3% = 0.5%). This works out the cost of their funds generation is about 40% a year (Assuming Gold price is stagnant). If Gold prices moves upward in the next 6 months, then their cost of funds is much lower than 40% per annum. Converesly, if Gold price move down, their cost of funds will be higher.
The simple question we need to ask ourselves is how TGL make use of the funds that they have raised every month from these Gold investors(ie estimate about S$7 mil a month and growing). If TGL do nothing with this fund or spend it on themselves, then this will be a ponzi scheme.
However, if TGL uses this funds to do other trading activities and could make good returns on their funds then then it will not be a Ponzi scheme.
For example, we know that Tiger Air is losing many $ millions since they started operations. Yet there are many investors willing to buy their IPO shares. Should we be calling Tiger Air as scam or Ponzi scheme?
Tiger Air biz model is a low-cost airline in Asia and Australia with a focus on route profitability and commitment to a disciplined low-cost business model.
How much do we really know about Tiger Air biz model from just a simple paragraph?
TGL biz model is simply “General and Wholesale Trading”
The simply question we should ask ourselves is “Do we have the trust in the TGL management that they will be able to make more money than their cost of funds (ie make more than 40% returns a year). As long as TGL is able to make more money than their cost of funds, they will be profitable and sustainable in the long run.
In any biz, if you do not have the funds then you will have to find ways to raise the funds to do your biz. For example, in any IPO a company raised, they will have pay their IPO manager at least S$2 mil.
Borrow from the banks? Will any bank lend you money at 120% of your asset? (ie if you have S$ 1 mil in 999.9 Gold will the bank lend S$1.2 mil?) No way. They may consider to loan you only $S700K and charge you a 6 to 10% interest per annum depending on your credit standing with them.
In summary, we know how TGL raise their funds. General and Wholesale Trading is almost anything under the sun. They can be trading in high tech products, commodities, equities and etc. We will have to determine for ourselves if we can trust the TGL management to make more money than their cost of funds.
If we cannot trust the TGL management then please keep your money. If you can trust the TGL management then go ahead to invest in this Gold instrument where you know that your risk is no more than 30% within a 6 months period. Many times less risk in comparison the the Lehman Brothers mini bonds…..
On your question of what happen when Gold price drop 20% overnight? Gold prices typically are not so volatile. You can go and see for yourself by doing a Google/Yahoo search on the Gold price history. 12% to 15% movement over a month is possible but not 20% movement within a day.
In the current volatile global economy, Gold prices are likely to hold up and move upward over time (especially during crisis).
The decision to invest in TGL is certainly done by ourselves as it is our money. CAVEAT EMPTOR!
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Victor,
Yes, what does TGL do with the money to generate that kind of returns with absolute certainty?
Like i said, in essence TGL is borrowing money from investors and paying them interest and using the gold bar as a collateral.
What they do with the money is of course their perogative, as long as they continue to sustain payment to the investors.
Is this a sound business model?
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BP Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:51 am
Your description sounds like what the banks are doing with our money. But we don’t have any collateral when we lend our money to the banks in the form of deposits.
How come no one questions the banks’ business model??
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stanlim88 Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 12:01 am
Becos banks pay u 1-2% interests and loan out at > 2% interests to company and consumers. Most importantly, they are the country licensed “loan shark”. TGL and others must be able to loan out their cash and unfortunately, even if they are able to do so, are running an illegal loan shark activities since they are not licensed in the country as banks! If the invest money in equity, they are also illegal fund mgrs and their returns are not guaranteed – will lose money in most cases!
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Victor Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 12:12 am
Stanlim88,
As a General and Wholesale trading company, TGL cannot be considered as illegal fund mgrs if they invest only 20% to 30% of their funds in equity. They could invest another 40% to 60% of their funds into trading commodities (Gold, Silver, Copper, coffee, sugar, soya and etc.).
Returns could be good if they have some very good traders to can help them make extremely good money.
BTW, I am only speculating as I really do not know how TGL used their funds to sustain paying such has returns to their Gold investors.
Regards
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Victor Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 11:57 pm
Fact,
I do not know if TGL has a sound biz model. Anyone who is working as an employee will not be able to operate on this model to make a profit. But I think there is 1% of population out there who is able to make this a sound biz model. I observed that TGL Malaysia has been able to sustain their operation for more than 1 years.
Also looking at Genneva Malaysia who also can sustain their operations for more than 2 years. Genneva in Singapore has been around for more than a year. Genneva Singapore is paying 2% per month versus TGL’s 1.5% per month.
I can only safely project/conclude that TGL Singapore will certainly be around for the whole of year 2010.
In the meantime, you may want to take some calculated risk to invest in TGL for the next 6 months or 1 year to enjoy the high return of 9% every 6 months.
Just like any investment, you should make regular assessment of your portfolio.
Regards.
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Victor, as long as net inflow of cash exceeds net outflow, the biz will sustain, simply because they will have money to pay out the investors.
But if its the same number of investors continue their same amount of investments and just keep collecting the returns without increasing the amount invested, (i.e. 100 investors with say $10mil amount of money buying gold bars and selling it back and buying again with the same amount of money), I would like to see how TGL can sustain paying out 40% per annum contiually for 2 to 3 years, unless they have a fortune teller in theor trading dept that can accurately and consistently predict the direction of their trading to make money day in and day out.
Any biz model that depends purely on the increasing inflow of investors money and has no viable profit stream from actual transparent trading, does not come across as a sound biz model. Its just borrowing from John to pay Peter.
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John Reply:
February 8th, 2010 at 11:41 pm
Fact,
Looks like many of you out there are wrong about TGL.
From a mathematical approach, most of you are right.
But most of you did not understand the reason why TGL chooses GOLD as the collateral.
The reasons were:
1) TGL has an optimistic view of GOLD. GOLD is going to continue to climb all the way to USD 5K per troy ounce in the next 3 to 5 years.
2) For the big players who trade in physical GOLD, they need to pay for logistic and security cost to ensure that their physical GOLD are held safely. TGL’s scheme allows them to hold GOLD without paying for these charges. The retail GOLD investor keep the GOLD for TGL as most of them will continue to roll their investment thru’ the TGL Buy back scheme.
3) Look back at the historical price of GOLD for the past 5 years. GOLD prices rose at a 20% compounded growth every year! Imagine 5 years ago, GOLD price was at about USD 400.00 versus the current price of about USD 1100.00 per troy ounce.
4) TGL’s scheme allows retail investors to participate in GOLD investment and also create the demand for GOLD and therefore help to push up the GOLD prices.
5) TGL makes money from their initial 20% gain by buying at wholesale price and selling at retail price as well as when the GOLD price increase yearly.
In summary, as long as GOLD continue to rise at 20% compounded every year, TGL will continue to make good money and pay good rebates/dividends to their GOLD investors.
Its ceratinly a very valid biz for TGL over the past 3 years.
Cheers.
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John,
1) TGL has an optimistic view of GOLD. GOLD is going to continue to climb all the way to USD 5K per troy ounce in the next 3 to 5 years.
—> What has this got to do with TGl paying out 2% every mth? If they are optimistic that gold can climb to $5000 in 3 to 5 yrs time, it will be a lot cheaper for them to buy a long dated (LEAPS) Call option for 100 tons of gold. Why bother with all these massive administrative procedure selling and buying back the physical gold and paying investors interest?
Also, what if gold reverts back to US$200/ounce? “No way!” I hear you say. Well, even 100 years old bank can default. Dont assume.
2) For the big players who trade in physical GOLD, they need to pay for logistic and security cost to ensure that their physical GOLD are held safely. TGL’s scheme allows them to hold GOLD without paying for these charges. The retail GOLD investor keep the GOLD for TGL as most of them will continue to roll their investment thru’ the TGL Buy back scheme.
—–>What they are paying to investors is way much higher than the carry cost of physical gold. It is not that difficult to find out carry cost of gold. If you dont know how to find out, than you shouldn’t even be trying to trade or invest in physical gold. The fact that you even bring this up as an basis of TGL biz model goes to show how ill informed you are about the real gold market out there. Why dont to go to any goldsmoth shop and tell them you will safeguard their gold for them for 0.5% per mth and see what they tell you?
3) Look back at the historical price of GOLD for the past 5 years. GOLD prices rose at a 20% compounded growth every year! Imagine 5 years ago, GOLD price was at about USD 400.00 versus the current price of about USD 1100.00 per troy ounce.
——-> This is a sales pitch to get investors to invest with TGL. I will buy physical gold for 20% lesser and keep it as investment if I want to participate on the upside growth of gold. Why should investor trade back their gold for 2% returns and buy back again at new market price to roll for another 2% return? Are they really investing in gold’s price growth of are they just greedy for the 2% return which does not depend on which way the price of gold goes since TGL promised to buy back at original purchase price?
4) TGL’s scheme allows retail investors to participate in GOLD investment and also create the demand for GOLD and therefore help to push up the GOLD prices.
——–>Again, how does the retail investors participate in the price growth of Gold since their return is cap at 2% per mth? If Gold appreciates 10% in 1 mth, wouldn’t the investors be losing out on the additional 8% growth? And a few hundred kilograms of gold isn’t going to move the price of gold at all. Your arguement that TGL is creating demand for gold is laughable. Please go and find out how much above ground physical gold are there in the market right now.
5) TGL makes money from their initial 20% gain by buying at wholesale price and selling at retail price as well as when the GOLD price increase yearly.
——-> You dont even know what you are talking about. Even if TGL mark it up by 100%, they have to REFUND the investors that ORIGINAL purchase price at the end of the day. Where does TGL make any money from?
In summary, you are the type of investors that TGL targets for because you have no inkling how the gold market operates. MAS has a Gold department that invest and manages part of Singapore’s reserves in Gold. Why dont you suggest to TGL sell all their gold to MAS and promised them the same returns that TGL give to retails? I am sure MAS, or for that matter any bank’s treasury, would love to dump a few hundred million of their funds into such lucrative
returns.
Why dont TGL sell to all the fund manager’s and hedge fund’s here in Singapore? Why dont they tie up with all the private bankers and wealth managers and penetrate the High Net Worth market where they can easily raise tens of millions of dollars selling by hundreds of kilobars with just a handful of investors instead of going to the man in the street selling by the 50grams here, 100 grams there?
Oh, because they want to help the small investors because the rich are already rich so dont need to help them become richer? Sure. if you buy that, good luck to you.
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Lady Reply:
March 10th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
As for your last comment on selling to fund managers, lets say TGL does go to that stage.. Will the rebate of 2.5% still be offered? With so many parties involved, by the time it reaches the investors it might not be that attractive anymore.
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the co definitely will disappear before end of 2010
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BP Reply:
March 1st, 2010 at 1:28 pm
you have information on this that you can enlighten us with?
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Hi,
I have discussed with some of my network – Merger & Acquistion Personels, Biz Directors & High Net Worth Private bankers, p’s: some of these smart guys have also invested with TGL.
They dont find anything wrong with this biz model as this is the way how banking system around the world are functioning.
In fact, they teach me how Oil industry are doing oil trading as well to earn money. Jus that they are rich, no need to do financing with your money. Else, they can even guranteed you 3% per mth!
For a very simple example:
Your Fixed Deposit 1% per year.
Your foreign currency 8% per year.
Your saving account 0.2% per year.
etc.
Hence, I felt there is no need to debate & discuss anymore.
In everything, its about comfort level.
if you feel comfortable putting money in bank, go ahead.
If you feel more comfortable putting money with a hard asset, go ahead.
Bank and any biz or company has default risk.
Understand the MAX downturn and that’s about it.
bank has a lot of loopholes. Why not let’s start a new thread abt bank? Im quite keen actually..
Esp with MINIBOND!!!
Cheers! God bless.
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If you have any queries about TGL in KL, I am reachable on ryan846@gmail.com. I am a Manager with TGL and we are based at Mid Valley MegaMall in KL.
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Phua,
There are several threads on minibonds already on this site. You obviously didn’t read or joined their discussion.
Don’t defray from the thread topic and try to sidetrack into something else.
If your rich HNW associates and private bankers finds nothing wrong with the biz model, than they should have set up the same biz model as TGL and made tons of money themselves instead of participating.
As a matter of fact, all the gold traders and retailers should go the same way as TGL.
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watch out for this types of business!!!
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Hi all, finally I have finished reading all the comments given. Very educational for beginners like me.
Personal comment. Whichever investment carries risk. Seriously, we havent heard any complaints or grieves from anybody who is already investing in Genneva or TGL. I guess not “yet”. I suppose this “game” is to get in early and come out early. For all other investments, we are holding papers documents wherelse physical gold bars are in our possesions ( thou paying 20% more ) in case of closure of the company. Price of gold do flatuate. Personally I do look forward to go into this investment till the gold reached certain “spot price”.
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the problem with gold label and the company behind it not have yet have license from security comission to assured the public about their investment scheme although they say they are applying. they should get the license first then only they start operate. they also say they have good connection with security commission but a without the license it’s hard to make people feel safe.
they also claim that there are legitimate because they are operating in singapore but then i still feel the safest way is to get a black and white approval from bank negara and securuty commission.
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In Singapore they are registered as a “second hand goods dealer”. They are actively pitching their program as an investment while at the same time telling the authorities that they are just buying and selling second hand goods which in this case the goods happen to be physical gold.
As far as their clients are concern, they are “investing” with TGL, motivated by the returns disguised as “discount”. It is structure so as not to violate the securities and financial act of MAS. But in essence, it is still an investment.
The clock is ticking….
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