Mar 17 2009
Clemen Chiang Freely Refund
Clemen Chiang, an options trader and chief trainer of Freely Business School, was in the news last week for a lawsuit bought against him.
Trading ‘Expert’ Ordered to Refund Fees (Straits Times)
A group of his ex-students (49 of them), won a decision from the Small Claims Tribunal (SCT) for a refund of the fees that they paid Clemen Chiang.
According to the group, they felt misled that Clemen’s doctorate was from an unaccredited university. They only found out about it when The Straits Times published an article on degree mills last August.
The SCT awarded the group a 80% refund of their fees and a 100% refund of any software or webinars that they bought from Clemen.
A post in the Channel NewsAsia forum has gathered steam with many of his other ex-students discussing on the claim process. At this point of writing, it is already up to 28 pages long.
According to one forumer, all ex-students of Clemen can lodge their claims as long as they do it within a year of the initial SCT claim. As that claim was filed in August 2008, that means everyone has until August 2009 to file their claim.
Edited: The post in the Channel NewsAsia forum has been deleted. Some of the students has setup a google group for discussion. Please email tanhanfung@hotmail.com if you would like to get involved.
A check at the Freely website showed that the physical address has been removed and replaced with a PO Box address.
Clemen’s students number by the tens of thousands and if a significant number of them come forward to file a claim, it could turn out to be a huge financial liability for him (each 3-day course costs a few thousand dollars). e.g. 10,000 x $2000 = $20 million
Unless Clemen keeps a lot of his assets in the form of cash, he will probably have to dig deep into his options trading skills to “generate” the cash required to settle the claims.
In Clemen’s case, he said that he was not aware that the university where he got his doctorate was a unaccredited one. The decision by SCT is a landmark one as it shows that ignorance does not work as a defence.
For other trainers currently in the market, they will have to make sure that any claims they make are properly backed up otherwise they might be haunted by a similar judgement in the future.
He is still in Business. He has bought a Building in Middle Road last year and according to ACRA Business Profile Report, both Freely Pte Ltd and Freely Business School is now operating at:
Freely Pte Ltd/Freely Business School
110 Middle Road #09-00, Chiat Hong Building
Singapore 188968
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Options.Trader Reply:
March 18th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
His latest address is found at:
http://www.freely.edu.sg/PGSM/Contactus.html
Freely Pte Ltd/Freely Business School
452 North Bridge Road
Level 4 Nam Peng Building
Singapore 188733
Tel: 6100 7476 Mobile: 9099 7476
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Well, well…
A long time ago, I attended one of the ‘free’ seminars and I was really pissed (excuse me).
I can still remember clearly why I was pxxxxx.
1. The program started late even though the room was already packed. It then dawned upon me that while waiting, there was a video showing the successes of the graduates – one after another.
2. Then came this famous NLP guru whom I read recently, likes fast cars. I have no idea why he gave an introductory brief but this is the first time I hear him speak and I have no idea what value does he add.
3. The one big issue I have with this seminar was I did not even see one single losing trade. All the winning trades can be proven to be real. I have no issue with that. I can make 100 trades, loose 95 and only show you 5 winning trades. I can also pick the best trades from those that want to show off. I have seen several adverts that say their (winning) trades have all been audited. Show me the losing trades…..
To be fair, the responsibility should not be 100% on the guy or promoter. We are partly responsible for our decisions and actions.
Even though I did not attend this course, I did choose to attend another one which costs me I think $300 plus, including a buffet lunch at Copthorne Hotel. I learnt the mechanics of trading options and the process of opening an options account with IB brokers with very very low commission fees. The instructor showed real life trades and I noted he has several losing trades as well (but he did not highlight and he did not hide). He did not claim to make millions and it was very clear to me, he was not trained in NLP.
There are still many courses out there who claimed to make millions. I’m quite sure many of you know if they can make so much money, why bother with all these training?. Well, they keep bombarding us day in and day out with the news papers advert until you eventually believe them. “Believe” me, this works.
Just remind yourself – where are the losing trades?
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lioninvestor Reply:
March 18th, 2009 at 12:22 am
How very true on the part about the losing trades.
It is not the number of winning trades that count. It is not even the number of winning trades compared to the number of losing trades.
It is the consistency of returns over an extended period of time that separates the profitable traders from the losers.
This might be possible even with a system that gives you a less than 50% winning accuracy. So, don’t let claims of accuracy fool you.
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Slim Reply:
March 21st, 2009 at 1:07 am
I agree he is using NLP.
Only showing the successful trade examples.
Make you believe you can be a millionair after attended his course.
He is good in making you believe that his trading method and strategy is good.
To spot a good stock is easy.
To spot a good stock and know the price direction is very very difficult.
To spot a good stock and know the price direction plus when is very very very very difficult.
So do not believe trading option is easy.
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Thank god i never signed up with him 4 yrs ago after attending his free introductory seminar…
too many instance of winning scare me off…
in a real world – there is no win-win otherwise lehman will not go down ….
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want to know how clemen pscyho those who asked about losing trades? he projected this idea….
“We do not discuss about losers because they offer no value and to be a winner in life, one just need to pick up the loss and continue. For those who are interested in the losers, we will discuss it during Freely Dynamic Strategy segment to demonstrate how you can recover from the loss. Isn’t this wonderful?”
ask somemore… he will not hesitate to say in front of a crowd of hundreds:
“it looks like you do not have the right mindset to become a millionaire”
some of the information might be a tad of a fabrication but the spirit of how he intimidates and influences is contained in above.
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Jack Reply:
March 18th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
I do agree with the second portion that to be a winner in life, one ‘partly’ needs to pick up the loss and continue. You know who needs this more than us at this moment.
(Of course, we do not discuss about losers is rubbish)
I also have to say that this guy is ‘good’. We probably cannot match his ’skills’ in doing what he is doing. Just like the sun swine guy.
All these stuff reminds me of a quote from Abraham Lincoln that goes something like -
You can bluff some people all the time.
You can bluff all the people sometimes.
But you cannot bluff all the people, all the time.
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hahaha is amazing…’having the mindset of becoming millonaire’
all those queuing up to buy toto definetly have it, but not when u trade with your own money.
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http://forum.channelnewsasia.com/viewtopic.php?t=227289
There is another online medium which we should highlight our plight. The Singapore Online Citizen http://theonlinecitizen.com is widely watched by our leaders and authorities
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I actually waiting for someone in Forex trading to fall like Clemen. And seems that Clemen case has also gone to the Forex forum.
let’s spread the words hehe
http://www.forexforum.asia/showthread.php?p=15593
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lioninvestor Reply:
March 19th, 2009 at 8:44 am
I really hope that MAS will start regulating such trainers.
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Picked this up from the net:
Dr. Clemen Chiang has devoted his life to education. In 2000, he graduated from Singapore’s Nanyang Technological University with a Bachelor’s Degree in Engineering. He went on to receive his Masters of Business Administration in 2002 at the University of Louisville in Kentucky. In Louisville, Mayor David L. Armstrong presented the “Key to the City” to Clemen Chiang.
In 2004, Clemen Chiang became Dr. Clemen Chiang upon receiving his Ph.D. in Finance. Another one of his most notable achievements was receiving the Shah Family Prize by Professor Haresh C. Shah of Stanford University for outstanding leadership and entrepreneurship qualities through extra-curricular activities and good academic standing. Dr. Clemen Chiang is now working on yet another Ph.D. for Business and Management through the University of South Australia. Additionally, Dr. Chiang is a participant of the Entrepreneurial Masters Program (Class of 2010), hosted by the MIT Enterprise Forum and the Entrepreneurs’ Organization (EO) In 2003, Dr. Chiang made the decision to share his extensive knowledge with the public, establishing Freely Business School, an institution focused on educating and training its students in managing businesses, options trading, business development, asset protection, and financial management. Dr. Chiang continues to be completely integrated in the Freely Business School as the key instructor of the school’s workshops and seminars. To date, more than 20,000 students have graduated from Freely Business School. Dr. Chiang is a Fellow of many organizations including the American Academy of Financial Management, the Marketing Council of Asia, the Chartered Management Institute, the International Professional Managers Association, and the Chartered Institute of Marketing. Additionally, he was honored with a membership in the prestigious, invitation-only Entrepreneurs’ Organization, an organization of business owners who run companies that exceed 1 million dollars in revenue. When he is not teaching seminars or trading options, Dr. Chiang enjoys reading the Bible and staying in shape by swimming, jogging, and cycling.
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seems like the thread at CNA forum is gone.
we must attend every course with our minds open. There is no easy money in this world.
I hope all the 49 pax can get their money back. If CC practises what he preaches, he should give back the refund (pick up the losses and continues…)!
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bomb… everything in life is a form of trading. all the tools of the rich, be it a business / property / paper assets all involve buying low and selling high. all these tools have gamblers (aka speculators) & investors. so to paint a brush by saying that options trading is similar to gambling, i would differ.
also, everyone can be rich, at the very minimum find a way to generate sufficient passive income such that one does not need to rely on “the job”. I know of such people so it is an ideal worth going after.
nonetheless, Clemen’s method of trading is indeed like buying toto. it is just sad that he fabricated a PhD to give his nonsense credibility by saying that he had spent years researching the subject and hence most students really thought he was an expert. Furthermore, throw in a claim saying that he is a God fearing man, one would not expect such an individual to be a cheat.
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Chris Reply:
March 26th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
Obviously you have never attended a seminar with Dr Chiang otherwise you would not compare it to playing toto.
You are also not aware that he never hid that his PHD is from Preston. Anybody who signed up for the course because of his PHD should have checked out Preston and its credibility. You just have to do your research…. right?
I recommend you that stop repeating what others say and get your own opinion.
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Hi all,
TIME WILL TELL if you are what you are…
Clemen case is just like Lehman Brothers case. Everything was package nice and it appeal to people. The promise of good returns etc etc…the “FEEL GOOD” experience it will give to people…etc etc
All now, when everything is expose, we all know Dr C is just a fake !!!
I heard that before the 49 students sue Dr C, 30 over students sue him as he got his students to teach. Our current law minister, K. SHANMUGAM represented the case and won but these students were given a writ not to expose Dr C case when they got refunded. However, news did leak out and 17 of them got sue by Freely.
Dr C case was heard again during last Friday papers when 49 students went to Small Claim Trubunal to get refund for his dubious claim of his qualification when it was expose in the Strait Times in August 2008
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Can anyone give advice as to how ex students can go about getting a refund pse?
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lioninvestor Reply:
March 22nd, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Hi Mikeleenm,
Please refer to nightfalc’s comments below:
http://www.lioninvestor.com/clemen-chiang-freely-refund/#comment-11420
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Hi guys, I would also like some advice on how ex students can go about getting a refund from the course.
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lioninvestor Reply:
March 22nd, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Hi Calvin,
Please refer to nightfalc’s comments below:
http://www.lioninvestor.com/clemen-chiang-freely-refund/#comment-11420
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attended the course in Dec 2007. anyone knows if there is a chance to get a refund?
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lioninvestor Reply:
March 22nd, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Hi Freeme,
Please refer to nightfalc’s comments below:
http://www.lioninvestor.com/clemen-chiang-freely-refund/#comment-11420
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hi guys. someone has started a google group with current members close to 300 and another 200 pending confirmation. please email me at tanhanfung@hotmail.com if you would like to get involved.
this group will answer all your questions on claiming. also it contains useful documents for the submission of your claim.
Hope this helps…..
Regards,
55th Batch of Suckers
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DJIA Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:02 am
Hi,
For foreigner those who are took the course at oversea like Malaysia, Taiwan, Thailand … etc?
Thanks!
Regards,
66th Batch
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nightfalc Reply:
March 27th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
join the google group and see? we are not legal folks so must really see what it says about a singapore registered company conducting a course in another country, the question is where can you sue? if in singapore, then all foreigners apply.
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lioninvestor Reply:
March 24th, 2009 at 7:23 am
Hi nightfalc,
Can you post the link for the google group?
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nightfalc Reply:
March 27th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
there is no link leh. juz drop me an email and will get you signed up. we are trying to filter the folks who sign up.
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lioninvestor Reply:
March 27th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Hi Nightfalc,
All google groups will have a url. It will be something like
http://groups.google.com/group/groupname
When you are login to the group, just see what url it is on top.
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David Tan Reply:
January 27th, 2010 at 9:08 pm
Hi Nightfalc,
My Friend and I had filed a claim last year and are still waiting for the results. We are interested to join in the google groups that you have mentioned . We understand that the 1st batch of student from Freely had successfully got their refund. Below is my email address, please do keep in touch. Thank You.
tancs889@live.com
Regards
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I read from the Subordinate Court’s website that to submit an SCT claim, we have to fill in a form and submit together with a Biz Profile of the company. That is all. Is it better to submit as a group or individually?
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lioninvestor Reply:
March 24th, 2009 at 7:20 am
Hi mikeleenm,
Got this info from my friend:
Go to SCT, press for enquiry number, collect the form, fill in the details, make 4 copies of the filled form and 1 copy of the receipts, documents as evidence, press for registration number, submit the photocopies and pay 10 dollars for claims less than 5k. less than 10k 20 dollars and more than 10k 1% of the claim for registration fee.
The biz profile will cost another $4.80.
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For those who are interested to invest in stock, futures, forex & options, etf… all you need to do is to devote times to read & understand the concept. Then develop your own trading plan which suit your style. Refine further.
There are many books from the beginner ….DUMMY SERIES to GETTING STARTED to ….. COMPLEX STRATEGIES like GANN or ELLIOT WAVES.
Even if you buy all these books, it is certainly cheaper than what you have paid for those stupid seminars. You will LEARN MORE from them than what those superficial lectures dish out over the weekends by those so-call gurus.
Alternative, surf YOUTUBEs in your pyjamas. You learn more this way.
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hi chris,
on the contrary. i was his student and tried his method. i am lucky coz i was watching how it works and it made absolute nonsense. furthermore, after talking to many in the industry, his earning bull**** is like toto. I am stating what is a general opinion of the industry.
am i repeating what others say? maybe coz everyone feels the same way!!!!!!!!!
he never hid the fact that he had a phd from preston but he claimed that he was an expert in the field? who had done research amounting to a PhD? This is the misrepresentation. If is said I had a PhD from Bukit Panjang President’s University, who cares right? But if I tell the world that I had done research in a field and I am sharing that research for a fee, then this is the fraud? His earning gapping nonsense is based on reasearch? why do the 10 other professionals I have talked to tell me that ALL OF THEM dun like holding positions through earnings?
*********************
For those who want to claim, you have to email me and I will divert you to the right avenues. All can claim if clemen had induced your participation via his claim that he had done research amounting to a PhD. Because the breach of contract happened when Sandra published her article in Aug 08 and you have 1 year since then. Please email me at tanhanfung@hotmail.com. There is no direct link for it.
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Walter Teo Reply:
March 27th, 2009 at 10:13 am
Have try to email you on tanhanfung@hotmail but got no reply from you, can pls help me on how to claims from Clement ?Thank you.
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nightfalc Reply:
March 27th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
sori walter. can you try again and juz put an emphasis in your subject line? it is tanhanfung@hotmail.com. otherwise maybe you can leave your email? I will get back to you.
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Kenny Reply:
April 15th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
This is my email. I attend the seminar last year. He said we are the last group, 64th intake. And he is going to further his study. Now, when I have found out about this. I just want my refund. Please up date me. I have sent you email to tanhanfung@hotmail.com. Hoping for your reply and refund thank you.
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Chris Reply:
March 27th, 2009 at 11:06 am
Hi Nightfalc
If you have realy tried his strategies in the market you would know that they work. May be you spent too much time talking to trading “experts”. We have seen how under such trading experts the economy crashed and some famous trading “experts” run their companies into bankruptcy. Sometimes what everybody is saying is not necessarily the right thing… Coming from Europe we have learned from history that just because everybody is saying it, it does not mean its right.
Anyway, I am not your opinion. Please stop saying that everybody feels this way. I DON’T.
Every argument you have is based on what others say. Build your own opinion. Be strong, don’t repeat what others say.
If you want to make it in life you have to think out of the box. That’s why I love the freely strategies. They empower us to trade successfully by ourselves. Finally we don’t need fund managers anymore. But of course the experts want us to buy their fund, its safer they say. But actually they want our commission. None of all your experts have attended the seminar or have tried the strategies. Wake up…
Why do you think everybody is now asking for a refund? I have learned of this word kiasu… If people can get their money back, for whatever reason they will do that. That’s why suddenly everybody says that they were deceived. Common, be honest. Just say that you want your money back.
I hope that Dr Chiang will fight this all the way to the high court.
DR CHIANG, I love you and I will support you all the way. This people don’t deserve your hard work.
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nightfalc Reply:
March 27th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
wow chris… out of the 400 folks that i have come across, you are the first who actually supports clemen’s nonsense method. kudos if you have been successful at it.
what makes you say that my argument is based on others? you can ask our lion investor, i believe i have been highly vocal on the issue when many prefer to keep a low profile. be strong? sure sounds like the psycho therapy clemen often uses to subdue dissent!! hope you are not him!!!
you want opinion? okay… here’s why i stopped using his strategy and it is not only coz of expert talk…
1) Have you seen a stock gap down on an earnings beat and gap up on an earnings disappointment? The conference call plays a strong influence and the numbers behind are a lot more important depending on the industry that the company belongs to. Also, the company’s outlook.
2) Have you seen the stock price jump $2 but the option price only move $0.1? Helllo… welcome to the phenomenon called volatility crush. where’s the 10000%? it happens only when a “surprise” happens and you think as a part time trader you can spot “surprises” over the analysts who are researching the company full time?
3) Risk-reward is important to a trader. So if we bet wrong, the stock goes contrary to our belief, together with the volatility crush, we lose maybe 75%-100%. On the contrary, it is also rare we see more than 100% gains. with a 10%-20% success rate, do you think this method will make money in the long run? answer is NO!
4) you say that there are examples of students who were successful? do you know I examined some of Clemen’s pride and glory and realized that their trades do not follow his rules? From time stamp and reading their capital commitment etc. But when someone loses, he blames it on not following his rules? Anyway, out of the 10,000 students he has, i am sure at least a few hundred can strike lottery once in a while.
5) please find me a 45o up up and away chart (Clemen’s so called “technical analysis”). HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA. Now this type of chart is really once in a blue moon at the moment.
6) Freely dynamic strategy? wow.. this is like shooting yourself twice hoping that the 2nd bullet will make you feel better.
I can go on and on and on with regards to why I find his method ludicrous. and my point on consulting trading professionals is coz they are doing it everyday so i humble myself to listen and learn. if one had told me to be careful around earnings, I would think twice. If 10/10 tells me to be careful, i better heed those alarm bells.
For your information, there are better strategies that allow for successful trading. if you are feeling an adrenaline rush when you place a trade, you are not trading… YOU ARE GAMBLING!
lastly, the reason why no one had taken action before is simple. It was the courage of the 49 that opened the door. before this, individuals were afraid of so called “defamation” suit, “disruption of business” suit, that Clemen did not hesitate to instill in the minds of his students during his course. they want their money back coz his methods loss them money.
i was told by one of the students who is claiming mention that his friend is afraid to claim and is supporting his family off S$800 per month. he is in deep debt as he had borrowed money to attend clemen’s course and then after that trade clemen’s method. now, his life is a mess and all thanx to Clemen Chiang. how about tony chai? he loss his hand and was hoping to lead a better life. he kept the faith for 5 years and finally, this year he has waved the white flag. Clemen Chiang hardworking? he has destroyed many lives and I am sure he has a seat in hell reserved especially for him with “FREELY” labelled on it.
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Chris,
I have not attended his workshop but I have attended his seminar. I just want to qualify that first so we don’t go down this path.
I have some comments regarding your post.
“If you have realy tried his strategies in the market you would know that they work.”
‘His’ strategies might work for you but not for others.
“That’s why I love the freely strategies. They empower us to trade successfully by ourselves.”
Do you mean they empower “you” instead of “us”?
What is your meaning of “trade successfully”?
“Why do you think everybody is now asking for a refund?”
Not everybody is asking for a refund. Did you?
Regards,
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Chris Reply:
March 27th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Jack,
There are hundreds, if not thousands of successful trades on the Freely forum. Posted by students. The strategies work for others as well, not just for me. But since you never attended the seminar no point discussing the strategies with you…. But I am amazed that you still comment on this whole Dr Chiang discussion although you did not even attend the seminar…..
Trading successfully is trading profitable.
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nightfalc Reply:
March 27th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
like i mentioned in my previous post. success my a**. i have checked out even his most prominent student joul’s trade log and he was in and out of a contract during the day. was this freely’s method? students send their successes to Clemen because in his course, he again does not fail to instil in their minds that to gain further success, student’s must acknowledge the teacher… “COZ THE MARKET KNOWS. The market will bless those with a humble and good heart.” bull and nonsense.
by the way… the Bali retreat that students paid more than 10k for? to so call trade beside Clemen? In the google group, someone had shared that 70% of participants had loss money!!!! wow.. that is a good track record to be trading live with the “master”. this is proof enough that his method is like Toto.
THE END.
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qwerty Reply:
March 28th, 2009 at 12:29 am
chris, the fact u refer him as ‘Dr’ Chiang is hilarious, are you clemen in disguise?
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Ok folks. Let us all not try to be too carried away. Whether his methods work or not is open to debate. We can argue here the whole day without coming to any conclusion.
It might work for some, it might not work for others. Different strokes for different folks.
An analogy.
Lee Jiawei is an attacking player. If someone comes along and tries to coach her into a defensive player using the best techniques in the world, she might not necessarily get better results.
What I do know is that trading is a tough game.
I think when SCT ruled that students are entitled to a refund because of his credentials, it opened up the entire floodgates.
Now everyone can file a claim whether the methods work or not. Because the issue now is not with the trading method (which is hard to prove) but with his credentials.
And you know the 95% of people who do nothing after attending his course will definitely go and try their luck with a claim.
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Let’s lighten up a little. It’s a Saturday.
If you look at the scrolling testimonials you will see a participant from CIMB commenting:
“Keep teaching people how to kick ass!”
http://www.freely.com/FREELY_REGISTRATION_Seminar.php
If you go to http://freelymethod.freely.com/
you will find the fourth bullet says:
“Identify stocks to apply the Freely Most Powerful Strategy on Planet Earth”
LOVL
(laugh out very loud)
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well.. after his seminar you are indeed inspired to embark on this journey. but just like a drug, it is a “feel good” thing but the path is dark, cold and dangerous.
i dun deny using options around earnings can work but only under one circumstance. a big surprise that all the analysts, traders, investors in the world do not expect. A move in stock price so large that even the market makers could not discount it using Vega. I have seen the explosive profits but only in such a situation. Hence, the probability of such an event becomes equivalent to Toto does it not?
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ashley Reply:
March 28th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
The petition down!! at least when mi viewing it
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?SGFR001&1
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nightfalc Reply:
March 29th, 2009 at 10:03 am
try accessing via http://www.petitiononline.com/SGFR001/
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Chris Reply:
March 30th, 2009 at 12:37 am
Dear Victor (Nightfalc)
Let’s not discuss trading methods again. It is obvious that we do not agree.
I feel that you are too emotional in this issue. You are abusing the www. Can you please act and behave more gentlemanly? Scolding people on the web and letting go of your feelings in the way you do is not right. I hope that there will be some regulations soon.
If you really have all those feelings against Dr Clemen I suggest you see a councilor. A witch hunt like you have started is totally out of place. Has Dr Clemen offended you personally or?
If its only about your money then go and sue (I understand you have done that). Don’t be so emmo about the entire issue.
If you need a vision in life, fight global warming. Let you lawyer fight your case and fight a bigger cause yourself. Another thing you could do is to fight against child labor..
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thanx chris for your wonderful advise. =) actually i am not fighting anything. juz a facilitator to the bigger group who is organizing an even bigger group. so my job is just to create awareness and get people registered to one chap after which that chap will include the person into the bigger group. quite a simple job. just need a “forward” button.
had a fren who attended clemen’s course and his dying wish was for the public to become more aware of clemen, so consider it as an effort to try to let my fren’s soul rest in peace.
ahhh well.. a man gotta defend himself right? again… i think i have been enlightened by you wisdom chris. thank you so much….. actually i am indeed an emotional person. i feel like crying now so please excuse me…..
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freely.com now direct to freelymethod.freely.com? no seminars anymore?
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Thank God for that day..
I attended this guys’ seminar and like all the other idiots found one seat empty to be able to sign up the very same day.. but me and my gf thought about it again when it came to using CC..
Firstly, it was ‘our’ Saturday outing that was taken up by this seminar..
Secondly, it got me thinking after going back.. they said i could come back in 5 days and signup again then only they will keep my application from the attended seminar otherwise the next english ‘batch’ which will be after 3 months..
I went back, for the last time.. it was a yes yes from my dad even though he told me think about it after 3 months.. but i went back to sign up using my CC..
After taking several mins to think about it in the big hall by myself.. I decided to go for it.. Using my Citi card, it showed as declined.. I felt embarrassed at that time and said would get my dad’s card to try again.. But then when i did a research on the internet and after a week seeing a news in the Business Times about Clemen’s policy.. I Thanked God!! and the CC for not going through..
His skills are good to present.. He would make to take leave from work and come to his place coz just incase you get in trouble with your workplace.. you have only Freely to rely on, which is where he will hunt you and your lossing trades..
Yes, i agree.. There were no lossing trades.. all win win win.. I feel stupid of being a trader (businessman) myself and couldnt catch this.. I feel i was hypnotised.. oh well.. all well that ends well..
Stay away from all these .. there is nothing as easy and free money.. work hard and earn hard..
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Hi all, any idea whether the recent later second group has been successful in getting their respective claims ?
Alice
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Hi all, any idea whether the recent later second group has been successful in getting their respective claims ?
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One of the ST’s articles said that Clemen can appeal before certain date. Wonder whether he appeals and what the outcome is.
Any news on these ? Is the case (1st group) closed ?
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the appeal will be heard soon. juz awaiting the court’s decision on it. this appeal is against the 1st group.
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currently the google group has hit 400+. to throw some perspective to the strength in numbers, at the current state, if each were to contribute S$100 for a claim of S$3.5k to S$15k (ROI: 300%+++), we will have S$40,000 to hire a private lawyer to sue clemen!!!!!!!! can i hear “GAPPING UP”?
If there is interest to participate in this group, please email tanhanfung@hotmail.com.
Take care.
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ladies and gentlemen…. something interesting has emerged. some students said that clemen would do the following during his “trade live with clemen” sessions….
[removed]
If you have been “victim” or had experience in this matter, we would like to hear from you. This is a mere allegation at the moment but is worth investigation. Please email tanhanfung@hotmail.com to provide information.
Other things worth considering are:
1) Does Singapore legislation allow Clemen to dispatch such specific financial advise without being registered with the appropriate bodies? If he has broken this law, we might be able to have additional ammo to whack him.
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lioninvestor Reply:
July 28th, 2009 at 7:33 am
Hi nightfalc,
I have removed the contents of your allegation. Kindly discuss about that in private.
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Hi Lion,
Do you have any new development regarding Clemen Chiang’s case, as I have went overseas for over 2 months. Tks.
Regards,
Sophie
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lioninvestor Reply:
August 7th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Hi Sophie,
Sorry I don’t. Did you join the group for updates?
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Sir,
I would like to join the group, please add me in.
tq.
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Hi, all, is there any way to get a refund now? If yes, can anyone advise me accordingly? Thanks and cheers.
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[...] The High Court yesterday dismissed Clemen Chiang Freely’s appeal against claims awarded by the Small Claims Tribunal (SCT) to 48 people amounting to over $150,000. [...]
Hi lioninvestor,
As I’ve read in one of the articles posted here, those who wish to make claims (from SCT) against Clement Chiang can do so until Aug 2009.
Based on the lastest turn-out on 27 Nov 2009, I have also decided to make my claim against Freely. Is is too late to do so?
Do I still have the right or opportunity to claim back what I have paid for the course attended? If yes, where do I start from?
Thank you for your time.
Rgds,
Sam
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lioninvestor Reply:
November 29th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Hi Sam,
You might want to check with Small Claims Tribunal on this. All the claims were filed through them.
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Sam Yang Reply:
November 30th, 2009 at 11:34 pm
Thank you lion.
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ZY Reply:
November 30th, 2009 at 2:45 am
Hi Sam,
I wasn’t aware of the SCT ruling in our favour in March and was only aware of it from last Friday’s newspaper.
Like you say, we seemed to have passed the Aug 09 deadline. So are we alone on this to submit a new claim then?
Nightfalc – Just sent an email to you to join the group. Do you think you can help us on this? Many thanks.
ZY
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Sam Yang Reply:
November 30th, 2009 at 11:59 pm
Hi ZY,
Under normal circumstances, the claim (so-called “cause of action”) has to be made within a year.
Am currently checking out if there’s any recourse for us @ http://app.subcourts.gov.sg/sct/page.aspx?pageid=3948# .
Still fumbling through the WEBS of links to find something relevant and pertaining to this particular case.
Will update if found anything.
Rgds,
Sam
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Does,nt matter your case is longer than a year.
I have altready filed with SCT in July and they have no objection even though i attended the course in 2006/2007
Why don,t you do it too since the fake Doctorate holder already loss his appeal (30 NOV 09 — Straits Times).
Just make sure you submit the right documents they wanted.
hope that help
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BrokeStudent Reply:
February 11th, 2010 at 7:38 am
Hi Ed,
Did the SCT accept your claim or was it pertaining to further conditions and acceptance?
I would like to correspond via e-mail if that is possible so I would be able to to fill up the right documents required.
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Hello
I’m an ex-student and just chanced upon the allegations tonight. I’m living and working abroad hence not being privy to this information in these past few months.
Could anyone (nightfalc seems to be very popular on this forum) kindly add me on to the relevant weblinks/sites concerning a request for refund, please.
Many thanks.
VP
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actually let’s all step back and think.
does it really matter if his doctorate is accredited or not?
i believe most people signed up for his course due to the attraction of making easy money.. not because he has a doctorate.
guess people will do anything just to claw back some money.
not that i am supporting him.. i won’t sign up for this sort of ‘inspirational talks’ where nothing concrete is really taught.
my thoughts are simple… if i have a money making scheme.. i won’t SHARE or SELL it..
i will quietly action it myself, keeping all the profits for myself. It’s a zero-sum game, the more people doing it, the less profit i can make!
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Intheknow
Good for you that you were able to see through CC’s persuasiveness and motivational ability.
With more people advertising their services teaching Fx, options, commodities, whatever, it is so easy these days to make a decision to pay or not to fork out money. Spend a bit of time, petrol money and parking at hotels, just attend all these free seminars, compare the speakers, do loads of research (there’s tons of available material in the past 3 years).
It’s so easy to make a sound judgement call with all this available.
Try 5 years back when information was not available.
We are willing to pay good money in return for picking up a new skill to improve ourselves.
This incident serves as a warning to all these run-off-the-mill so-called gurus who make loads of money from workshops and seminars without doing what we paid them to do -ensure the students master the subject matter well.
That is all we ask for.
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Hi Intheknow,
Yes, let’s take a step back and see how a rational person like me made a decision on signing up for his bulls*** course.
1) Yes he promised “easy money” but was it really “easy”? He said that we need to work hard and be committed. It was a journey that was going to take work with significant rewards. So please dun be too simplistic and base your judgment on superficial impressions.
2) He portrayed himself as a PhD and was sharing his RESEARCH in the field of options. My first comment to my parents when I signed up for the course was “I think this guy has the right background to guide me in the field of options.”
3) Well, if I have knowledge to make money that can generate me an income of S$10k, then if I can sell that knowledge for S$500k over 3 days. What do you think I would do? DUHHHHHHHHHHH…….
4) He stood up on stage saying how he wants to help people, how he was disadvantaged as a child, how he is God fearing, how he does charity, how he sees all those Gurus cheating Singaporeans and he wants to be different. Basically, it did not occur to me a Singaporean would be of that thick a skin, zero a conscience scum. Too bad, they exist even amongst a straight shooting population like Singapore.
Those are my two cents worth from someone who actually was a student.
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HaHa, NightFalc,
you come across as too gullible. People learn either through experience or knowledge and I always advocate learning through knowledge rather than experience as it can be painful and involve losses.
There is a PHD dropout advertising constantly to teach Maths and Physics and claim that George Yeo’s son is attending his classes. He also got Jack Neo to write a testimonial saying how his son got into ACS from a neighbourhood school after attending his class. He boasted of his superior ability to teach, saying that all the MOE teachers do not know how to teach and promised an A1 grade from an F9 grade or money back. He made super claims and charges high tuition rates for group tuition. Children attending his previews were all taken in, because they lack the cognitive ability to decipher what is real and what is not. Would you let your child attend his class?
When faced with our needs being met, normally our intelligence fades and emotions kick in. The technique is to distance ourselves from our immediate needs when attending such talks.
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Hi everyone,
My name is Phyllis and I have attended Clement Chiang’s course in 2008. I know that some of you have get the refund from the Tribunal Court.
Would you kindly enlighten me how to go about it if I want to claim? What is the procedure?
I am from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia and I really appreciate your feedback.
Thank you so much.
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Hi All,
I too was one of his many future “millionaires”. Unfortunately I lost a fair sum of my own money. As I attended his course in March-April 2007. 48th Batch. I am curious to know if there is anyone in the know who is in the knowledge of whether I am still able to pursue a claim in the Small Claims Tribunal due to the 1 year having lapsed. I am currently overseas and will only be back in July. That would be almost 3 years since my course. Would appreciate it if anyone could shed some light.
Thanks!
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hi… i was indeed gullible but not anymore… nowadays, even if a person says he is dying of thirst and needs a drop of water, i will tell him F*** U. =))))) you are absolute right Singaporean, this world is filled with cheats, even the government cheats its people…. doctors cheat their patients, lawyers cheat their clients, companies cheat the public, financial advisors cheat the innocent… luckily, in clemen’s case, we might have a LEGAL recourse against that SOB.
Phyl & Broke:
For SCT, it might be too late. Nonetheless, if you indeed feel strongly, you can join the google group that has been formed to discuss this matter.
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anyway, those who are sitting in their seat of cynicism thinking that they are some smart ass that can out wit out smart anybody, never ever going to succumb to any scams, good luck, you have decades to fall prey unless you stick your head in the ground and never expose yourself to risks, in that sense, you are probably already a loser. =)
check out the channel news asia video at Freely’s Facebook site. Clemen had all the major media endorsing him, again, never trust the news either!!!!!! such a sad world, there is no one that can be trusted.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&viewas=0&gid=7391772234
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NightFalc,
There are people out there who are genuine. We just have to be able to differentiate. It would be terrible to miss helping out those who really need help because we do not want to be cheated.
Yesterday I decided to buy a pen that is worth probably 30 cents for 2 dollars from a young girl who appeared to be having some physical disability at the Yishun MRT station. I decided to help because I assess that she needed help and she is working to get that help. I ignored the notice that she showed me to prove her legitimacy because that is not what can prove her status. I saw the genuine look in her eyes wanted to encourage her.
We just have to ask ourselves what is it in for us. If there is something great, like being able to make a fortune just by doing what we are told to do, then all the red flags should go up. In the above case, there was none, so I am quite satisfied that there is no conning going on.
Just my two cents worth.
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cool… go to bangkok and i am sure you will find many disadvantaged individuals / children. but do you know that they are the product of syndicates? syndicates actually handicap these kids so that they can go out and beg on their behalf. by your generosity, you might be propagating a greater evil. also just my 2 cents worth. =) so you too are gullible…..
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lioninvestor Reply:
February 13th, 2010 at 9:07 am
I think in all cases, there’s always fake and real ones. Ultimately, it’s up to us to choose who to give our money to.
If you think about it, there’s only 2 things we can do with all the money we earn. Spend it or give it away.
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I have been to Bangkok and also China, where I witnessed a great number of children, who looked very miserable, being made to beg. I did not give to them, because I take a holistic approach in my assessment, which includes the surrounding environment, culture and ethics of the place. The reason I did not give then was because I do not want to encourage the profileration of more such inhumane actions by syndicates preying on the young and innocent.
In one particular instance, I stood for over an hour, thinking of how to help that child, who looked on the verge of dying, with mucuous flowing freely from his nose and mouth, looking very distressed. It was just outside the China Construction Bank in Shenzhen. I considered calling an ambulance, the police, giving money and even taking him away with me. A police car came along, but they were not looking at the kid but at me, wondering what I was doing standing outside the bank after office hours. I realised that they were immune to such horrid exploitations of the young and was more suspicious of me being a potential bank burglar.
I resisted giving money as I was sure that it will work towards a longer term and greater disadvantage to the young in the community and I went to the lobby of the nearby Shangri-La hotel and sat down. I was on my night out in town, wanting to enjoy myself after working so hard for the whole week. I was depressed then, racking my brains on how I could help. I called up my colleague and shared my thoughts. My colleague, being a Chinese National, was used to such sights and consoled me.
For the first time in a long time, I prayed for guidance and had a sleepless night. The next day, I was informed by the HR manager that I was scheduled to be in a charitable basketball match with the Mayor of Shenzhen. Though I knew nothing about playing basketball I immediately agreed, seeing that it could very well be an opportunity for me to make my contribution.
Even in Singapore, I do turn down a solicitation when I think it is actually going to be a greater evil in the long run. The decision lies in the discretion of the situation at the time.
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I received many solicitations over the phone, from callers saying they were calling from Hong Kong, China etc telling me I have won an apartment, money, free trips etc. Each and everytime I will congratulate them back and saying that those gifts are now theirs as I unconditionally gave it to the caller. Again I used the same criterias I used to assess each and every solicitation. No conman will ever get you if you used these criterias to assess the situation. Basically, they all target at your Fears and Desires.
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hmm singaporean. bottom line is you do not know whether that kid died in the cold that night or not? he could have. Because of a lack of spirituality / presence of crooks in China, the hearts of the people have turned indifferent to such situations, they have learnt that it is better to be safe than sorry? anyway, I personally think the charity basketball was just your way of relieving your guilty conscience, but does it?
a lot of “charities” are another con job, I think we in Singapore know this more than anywhere else. celebrities use these “events” to glorify themselves so that they can gain personal interest. yes… they do take care of the poor, but many use your donations to line the pockets of those managing the organization. so did your participation really do good or help the mayor in his quest to look good?
anyway, those phone scams are childs play. the only ones who fall prey are uneducated individuals who do not know how the world works. any idiot will be alerted to it being a scam the moment the ask for money to “transact”.
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was talking to a psychologist that day and she said that a lot of these “gurus” use techniques taught in their professional studies in an unethical manner to gain commercial advantage from the masses… these techniques are hypnosis and embedded commands. NLP is also a powerful tool that can be subject to abuse.
The main distinction that one must be aware of is the intention of the person wielding the tools. These gurus just want to make fast money and have no checks in place with regards to conduct. Whereas a psychologist that has gone through a comprehensive study that involved ethics before technique knows its power and is subject to professional review if it is known that they abuse their skill and their patient’s confidence.
so the next time you think about going for a Rara seminar by Anthony Robbins / Success Resources, BUYER TRULY BEWARE!!!!!!!!! now do you know why the SELL SELL SELL at the end of all their programs? coz they have gotten you in their mental “sweet spot” where you will SPEND SPEND SPEND.
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